Travel Bug Abuse

[Geezer_Veazey]

A recent check of a cacher's profile showed him to be holding 10 Travel Bugs, some of which have been in his possession for several weeks. When TBs are held like this they have effectively been removed from circulation denying other cachers of the thrill of finding and moving them and denying the owner the thrill of watching their movement. Does anyone else feel the same way as I do about this?

[southdeltan]

There are lots of reasons that the cacher hasn't rehidden the travelbugs. They could range from a lack of understanding as to what bugs are and what to do with them to unforseen "real life" circumstances.

Travelbugs are sometimes confusing but I doubt if the person has 10 of them in their inventory that they're that lost...

However, they could have picked up several TB's in preperation for a trip, they could be on the trip and haven't had a chance to log the TB's (of course this could be checked with the 'last login' date on their profile) or some real emergency has stopped them from geocaching recently so they're stuck with the bugs.

I try to NOT pick up travelbugs because I don't know when the next time I'll get to go geocaching is. I've been stuck with leftover bugs at the last few events, I have 2 from an event in May :( I simply forgot to carry them with me the last time I went geocaching and it doesn't look like I'll get to go geocaching anytime soon. I've also had bad luck with the TB's I've owned so I don't really like them. They're not tremendously popular over here in MS either, so I don't see them too much.

If one of the travelbugs is yours and you're concernced - just drop a friendly email to the cacher to find out what's going on :)

sd

[rock_hound]

I guess someone holding travelbugs is better than not knowing thier location. I have been watching Poor Boys Stash (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... 1b7e003310 (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=716fda1e-b783-4d01-afc2-da1b7e003310)) for a while. The cache page shows seven travel bugs. However the logs indicate that only one is in the cache. Unfortunately now it seems that the whole cache is missing :cry: I think some cachers pick them up and then don't log them. It is a little confusing on the web site to log them in and drop them off.

I have two TBs in my possession that I picked in Florida last week. The weather has not been cooperative so I not dropped them anywhere yet. I also want to put them in a popular cache so they can travel more quickly.

[nonnipoppy]

So how long do YOU think a cacher should hold a travel bug thats not owned by them?

Are there circumstances that justify holding them longer?


How about some of you lurkers wading in on this subject with your opinion? Please lets try to keep it nice as a discussion where everyone has a right to his/her own ideas....poppy

BTW Geazer I did not mean to hijack your thread. I just read it and wondered what others thought.

[idratherbehiking]

This subject has been discussed many times in the Groundspeak forums. I feel that the only reason anyone should ever have more than a few travel bugs at a time is if they are going on vacation or are a regular cacher that moves them around in a timely manner. As far as the time goes on how long one should keep a travel bug, there are many different views on that. I believe we should pass them along as soon as possible so that others will have more of a chance to find them. Some of the nicer travel bugs with really good goals should probably be taken around for a while to achieve their goals and then plenty of information should be logged when placing them. To me one of the best parts of geocaching is reading about everyones experiences. Some of the best stories I have read have been in the logs for the travel bugs. On the subject of a cacher who does not get out and cache very often then I don't think they should take them. Everyone will have their different views on all of this but the travel bugs shuld be moved along quickly to cover more ground and give more cachers the ability to find them.

[cachecrazies]

We have strong feelings about the travel bugs. We've "lost" several of them and have turned one into a "virtual" tb. We find it very infuriating when they're not logged out of a cache and just disappear!

We received 4 tb's two weeks ago (given to us by the owner to place in Arkansas) and have placed 2 of them. The other two are driving us nuts until we get them placed. We like to get them out within two weeks if at all possible. If it's going to be any longer than that we email the owner of the tb to let them know what's going on with their bug. If we have a special cache or special trip planned we'll ask the owner if they have any problem with us keeping it a while longer.

As in most everything else, I think "communication" is the answer. TB owners won't get frustrated if they know that you're aware of their bugs goals and haven't "forgotten" that you have it.

As for someone deliberately holding onto multiple bugs for any length of time - we think it's a definate "no-no"!

[Bio-x]

I try to keep them moving as much as possible. I pick them up every chance I get because I would like people to do the same for mine. I have several that have either sat in someone's hands for months or ended up in TB prisons for a long time. Both scenerios can be annoying but they usually move eventually.

[Gaddiel]

We've committed some TB "sins" ourselves. Since we are not what I would call prolific or hardcore cachers, we have learned that we probably should not take a TB unless we are heading directly for its destination. Even then, we've held a couple of bugs for over a month.

If you are concerned about a particular TB, a friendly inquiry to the holder is probably the best bet. There may be a legitimate reason for them not moving the bugs along. Or, as someone else said, they simply may not place enough importance on TBs to feel that it's necessary. If it were one of our TBs, we would wait a month or two before sending an email. Beyond that, I don't know that we would or COULD do anything else...

[cachecrazies]

Ah - we've all committed those tb "sins"! We "dumped" both of the ones we had left in our inventory today - and feel so much better! Probably the reason that we now pass up more tb's than we pick up! :lol:

[RuffRidr]

I think I'm going to stop picking up travel bugs for awhile as well. The last couple I have had, I've had a hard time getting rid of for various reasons. The one I've currently got, I've had for waaay too long (sorry Bio-X). It seems like every cache I have done recently has been a micro cache. The regular size ones I have went after have ended up being missing.

--RuffRidr

[Bio-x]

No problem Ruffrider. I know you'll take care of it eventually. The one I was actually referring to was kept for 4 months and the cacher rarely logged into the geocaching.com site. They finally moved it just after I had given up on it.

[houseofcache]

I've decided that a short hop for a TB is better than no hop. I'll continue to pick up travel bugs, and if circumstance deems that I can't move them far, I'll pick one of the better local caches and drop it off there. Besides, it can't hurt to revist a favorite cache now and then.

[Geezer_Veazey]

I'm glad to see all the posts and glad to see there are others that feel the same as I do. The word "Travel" does not appear in the name for no reason at all. Travel Bugs were designed to travel. When they are held by someone for an unreasonably long time, they aren't traveling. When they are placed in a "prison", probably so named because of the extreme difficulty to access them, then their travel is restricted to a great degree.

Even Travel Bug Hotels that have the requirement to leave a Travel Bug in order to take one restricts travel in that the great majority of cachers are not eligible to take them and move them along. They are restricted to the "elite" who already have a Travel bug. This leads to people holding Travel Bugs in order to have one to trade when they find one of these caches, further restricting travel.

With geocaching and travel bugs just as in other areas of life we would do well to ask ourselves what the ultimate result would be if everyone acted just as I do.

I hope I don't injure myself climbing down from this soap box.

[Geezer_Veazey]

I'm glad to see all the posts and glad to see there are others that feel the same as I do. The word "Travel" does not appear in the name for no reason at all. Travel Bugs were designed to travel. When they are held by someone for an unreasonably long time, they aren't traveling. When they are placed in a "prison", probably so named because of the extreme difficulty to access them, then their travel is restricted to a great degree.

Even Travel Bug Hotels that have the requirement to leave a Travel Bug in order to take one restricts travel in that the great majority of cachers are not eligible to take them and move them along. They are restricted to the "elite" who already have a Travel bug. This leads to people holding Travel Bugs in order to have one to trade when they find one of these caches, further restricting travel.

With geocaching and travel bugs just as in other areas of life we would do well to ask ourselves what the ultimate result would be if everyone acted just as I do.

I hope I don't injure myself climbing down from this soap box.

[GEO]

I have had some of my travel bug's held for way over 6 months and 1 that is almost a year now.(active cachers).

As stated before I personally like my TB"s and Coins to be at Geocaching Events,makes it a little more special.

I have been seeing this discussed again and thought I would put in my input.
As of date I have had people from all over the World e-mail me and say they relly appreciate the way's I treat their TB's.Most of the time except for events(and some of them).I have traveled and made them a part of my story,uploaded photo's recovered Benchmarks,met the President..............and I could go on and on about stories about TB's.

I always e-mail the owner if I have a plan to hold on to it for a while and get the permission I need to carry on.

So the PERSON with the complaint should talk to the PERSON they have a problem with instead of beating around the bush about it.

There is a portion of the TB or GEOCoin that states it's goal,if you do not want your TB or GEOCoin going to events say so.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Just for the record, I have no axe to grind with any particular person. Except for the one TB missing in action, mine all seem to be moving acceptably. I have no problems with them going to geocache events. My pet peeve is anything which tends to restrict TB circulation are prevents any ordinary cacher from taking and moving one.

Think about this: Suppose a person decides to start a TB hotel. They watch the logs each day and go to where the travel bugs are and retrieve and hold them for their new cache. Then they start the cache with, say, 6 TBs. They have taken 6 TBs with no restrictions and put a requirement that to take one you must leave another. They have effectively REDUCED the number of TBs in circulation by 6. This is grossly unfair to all cachers without travel bugs currently in their posession, cachers who are abiding by the spirit of TBs who are promptly placing the ones they do find in a wide variety of caches.

The person who would do this did not have to leave a TB for each one he accumulated to start the TB hotel. He would be SOL if he had to abide by the requirements he puts on others.

Another thing: when a TB hotel gets muggled there are several TBs that are lost instead of just one.

I think it's admirable to communicate with TB owners. I do that myself. I think it's admirable to upload pictures. I enjoy seeing pictures of mine and I upload pictures for others.

I hope I've gotten the point across without beating around the bush that I think TBs should travel and that they should be eligible to be taken by any geocacher that finds them. We do not need defacto classes being created in the geocaching community.

Well, I managed to get down from my soapbox safely last time. Here's hoping I can do it again.

[chili36]

In my humble opinion, there are several valid reasons why I might hold a TB more than a few days. However, having said that, if I hold one longer than a couple of weeks, I email the owner and advise of my plans.

There have been times I have found a TB that needed to go in the direction that I had a trip planned within a month. Hopping a bug from the Ozarks to Nashville when he wants to go east keeps it moving.

I also think TB hotels are a great idea as I can always put a TB in there and get it back on track if it is lost or going the wrong way.

I picked up 5 from Eastern Arkansas and took them to GeoWoodstock. I brought back a like amount to spread around. Sometimes a turnover in TB's keeps everyone interested.

Again, all IMHO.

[nonnipoppy]

I hope that we can keep this forum (unlike GC.com IMHO) where we can disagree and not be disagreeable. Having said that here is our thinking about some T/Bs.

We have two T/B "hotels". They started with a minimum of three T/Bs each and ask that cachers take as many as they leave. That means they should always have three in residence. :wink:

We saw this in more metropolitan areas and found them very interesting. Primarily when caching we will always try a little harder/longer to seek a cache with a T/B. They are like bait to us. So we think that might be the same with others. 8O

We did plan this out a bit and placed them on IH40 so they could get more visits. As a cache owner we want to see our caches get visits. :o

I understand that everyone does not agree with this but we each play the game as we want. That is evident because when we stop to check on these caches we often find some cachers play the game they want and take and do not leave. Just as we experience in life people are going to do what they want to do. Regardless of what others ask or expect.

There have been some cachers that have visited and not taken a bug, while others ignore the request and take them. To me that means that we each PLAY this game the way WE want. That is not bad just different. I will not loose sight of the fact this is a game and will not get my underwear in a wad over something that cannot be controlled. Life is just to short for that. :D

Edit to say:
In most instances we started these "hotels" with our own T/B or T/Bs we had picked up after leaving ours. For poppy's birthday he was given eight T/B tags we carry the balance of those around with us to put in a cache we really enjoy, or to leave when we pick up a T/B. We have put a lot of T/Bs/Geocoins in play, far more in fact, that the six we ask to stay in these "hotels".



Have we kept T/Bs longer than we should? Yes!
Did we do it intentionally? No!
Will it happen again? Possibly!
Why? Life happens.......poppy

[Geezer_Veazey]

Greetings, Poppy. I should have prefaced my remarks by stating that I did not have you in mind when I climbed on the soapbox. Your profile shows that you have placed far more TBs and Geocoins in circulation than even the modest number you mentioned in your post.

I would imagine that you are the exception and that most people who set up TB hotels start few if any TBs. These are the abusers. I didn't intend to call any names but I'm sure some will know who I am talking about when I say there was one notorious example in the Central Arkansas area a few months ago. Others I have noticed are out of state.

There are many TBs that are started by cachers who just want to experience in a small way what it's like to own a TB. They purchase one or two and eagerly watch their email for notices of movement. Because I have made my feelings known in a few places I have had emails from some of these people expressing their dismay that their TB wound up in a TB hotel with 5 or 6 others and then just sat there for months while others would come and go.

I guess I should also say that, as much as I dislike seeing the requirement to leave one when you take one, I do not advocate disobeying the instructions of the cache owner. I just hope some people who have never give it any thought will do so and perhaps agree that there is some merit to what I say.

Geezer.

[nonnipoppy]

Hello Geezer.
You sir are the shining example of the cacher that obeyed our request about take and leave. For that I thank you.

Sometimes we tend to focus on single issues. We personally do not pay much attention to the T/B logs. We tend to focus more on the logs we write and the logs we receive. I was shocked to read that others focus on the T/B logs.

We have a travel bug Diog that has been in one guys possession for nearly a year. :(

I sent a fairly terse pointed email to him recently. :evil:

Does it bother me? yes! :!:

So I adopted some ideas about travel bugs from GC.com forum.

Don't make them cute is number one. Diog was cute. Nonni loves cute. But the current crop of T/Bs are either ugly, scarred or just stupid. That insures (a bit I think) they are less likely to disappear. Another T/B SSR completely disappeared and I sent him to the graveyard only to have him reappear. That's how he got all those miles.

For many years my living has depended on controlling my attitude and disregarding the negative. My only point about that says if I have no control over something it will not appear on my radar screen.

Simplistic? Yes!

Effective? Without question for me.

There are things that bother me. Examples:

A: T/Bs in caches that are only visited two or three times a year are worse, in my opinion, than someone keeping them.

B: Cachers do not trade even or up leaving a year old cache full of junk.

C: Some cachers do not reset caches as they found them, making the experience different for those who follow.

D: Cachers who do not write a log worth reading for our caches. This is our payment for placement and I want to be paid well.

But alas I control none of these; therefore I choose to not allow them to negatively affect my geocaching life.

We have enjoyed almost everyone of our cache finds. We will continue to focus on those things and not the above mentioned.

I am not trying to preach to anyone here. These are our attitudes and opinions. If you get something from it fine. If not, that's OK also. Happy caching to all ......poppy

[Team Panda]

TB Etiquette is something I've been wondering about as I'll be vacationing up north in August and if I happen to find some, I'd like to take a few TBs on an extended trip and drop them off in caches (old or purpose created) to put some miles on them for the owners.

For those who didn't catch my introduction post over at GC, I'm brand new to this game, though I've been visiting GC for quite some time and studying up on the whole process, so while I think I have a pretty good grasp of the THEORY, the reality is never quite the same, so this thread alone is a load of good information on how folks feel about their caches and TBs.

Just as an informal survey, does anyone here think that gathering a few TBs (Maybe 3 to 5 at most) for a month to six weeks for the sake of taking it hitchhiking a few states away would be amiss?

[Gaddiel]

First of all, welcome to ArkGeo and to geocaching! Glad to have you here and we hope that you'll post often!

As for the Travel Bugs, if they were mine, I'd probably get a little concerned after two or three weeks. However, if you were to contact us, tell us your intentions, and keep us updated with what's going on, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

For us, a lot of things can be overlooked if people are civil and communicate their intentions to us. Just let us know what's going on. As TB owners, we would feel that we were entitled to at least that much. From there, we can work out any problems that arise.

Just our $.02...

By the way, you are doing the right thing by asking before acting. That alone says a lot about your consideration for others.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Welcome, Team Panda. You have discovered a great hobby.

I agree with Gaddiel and others in this thread who have mentioned the importance of keeping the owner informed when anything out of the ordinary is happening. And if you had my TB I would prefer that you placed it somewhere besides in a TB hotel. I know there are others who feel the same way, as well as those who don't care. It seems to me that TB Hotels are usually rather ordinary caches near modes of travel. The really innovative and exciting and scenic caches are very seldom the TB hotels. It shouldn't be any problem to find caches to leave them in and other caches where you can pick up TBs to bring back with you, if you so desire.

Where up north are you going? I vacationed in Maine last year, but sad to say, it was the month before I learned about geocaching. What a missed opportunity.

Geezer.

[rousefam]

We would have to agree with most all points made. We have had issues with new cachers not logging TB's correctly, and thinking our TB was gone when a cache was vandalized, only to have it show up, much to our joy, a few months later.
Now that there are TB pages to attach, explaining how to handle a bug, it should help.
We have been guilty of holding a bug or two for 3 weeks, so we could move it a longer distance, which is what most of us want to see with our TB's. The owner was very appreciative that we moved it, as the bugs had been held by others way too long. I have no problem with a TB being held for a few weeks, as it is not always possible to get out every week, based on schedules.
I do not agree with holding a TB for months, keeping the TB out of circulation, when it could be moving along.
The great thing about geocaching is that most of us have a passion and thoroughly enjoy the game. Our excitement is what brings others to this sport, and it is great we have the freedom to express our opinions and thoughts.
Great comments from all. It is inspiring. :D
Lefty & Roust-about

[Nyteyes]

You act as if it is impossible to find a travel bug. In reality alot of caches contain them. They have the reuirment to leave a bug because its a HOTEL its is a place for people to pick them up. They EXPECT them to be there and if they are not people are dissappointed. If ervyone that has a TB at any given time is elite im sure like half of us are elite. Just have fun with the game. I have 8 travel bugs in circulation and i could care less if they get moved every day. I dont know why we should get all mad at people for keeping them for a perioid of time. Its just a game. And they are just items. lighten up.

[chili36]

I concur with nyteyes. I haven't had a single problem with any travel bug that couldn't be cleared up with a short note to the owner or person holding it.

[Team Panda]

Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice everybody, sounds like the key is to just remember that the TBs don't get miracled there by the TB Fairy, but belong to real people and as such, a little courtesy goes a long way!

FWIW, the whole "TB Hotel" concept doesn't really appeal to me at all.

Thanks again, now if you'll 'scuse us, we're going CACHING!

:D

[cfd29]

I agree with GEO, don't keep a bug too long, if something happens that you can't take it back out, email the owner, communication is the key :P

[Geezer_Veazey]

Team Panda: Well said!

cfd29: Great avatar.

Geezer.

[BACKPACKNJACK]

They are restricted to the "elite" who already have a Travel bug.
You have made this comment in post and logs before but to the best of my recollection (I sure could be wrong here) you own a theme cache (health and beauty?) yourself. There are Travel bugs stops/hotels/jails, Coin exchanges, Trading card caches, Post card caches, Toy caches, etc.
I don't see the difference and just respect what ever the person who owns it wants in the way of trade or listings or pictures and place it back with the same camo theme plus log no spoilers on it's page. I appreciate the fact that after all, it is their effort, their money, their time, and I just get to have the fun. Whatever your ideal for a cache is I will respect it (I always have right?), whatever your ideals are on caches I will respect them, whatever your post are I will respect them too. I'm just confussed about were you see a difference here????? I just left wet wipes in your health&Beauty cache because as you can tell I've been out of health&beauty for some time now :lol:
I'm sure glade we have this site to share our thoughts and ideals and no dictators (yet). Right? (PS. I'm like you and hope LongDogs shows up so I can give him $$ for this site)\
I have a TB that is MIA but found it's name in a post and contacted that person. No reply yet but they took more then just mine and logged none of them. They have many logs before and many logs after so I guess they just didn't know how to correctly log TBs. I hope they remember where they left it so I can continue my rescue mission or my email reminded them to do something with it. Hope to see all you guys on the 21st because I've been tracking cachers but have no ideal what one looks like :D

[Geezer_Veazey]

Hello, Backpacknjack. It's good to have you on the board and see you expressing your opinions. I always enjoy reading what you write, be it here or in geocache logs. Your writings are always interesting and very often instructive. I see that Lil Sister is the newest member on the board. Good to have her also.

There's no doubt about it, putting out a theme cache makes it somewhat restrictive. I've often wondered why I did such a thing. I guess I thought it was a good idea at the time. The Health & Beauty cache doesn't get much traffic and I think it's probably because of the location and the hike involved. But I hate to think someone would pass it up because they didn't have a theme item to trade. I've thought about changing the description and doing away with the theme but just never got around to it. I'll probably be changing it soon.

I don't really have a problem with theme caches, if someone wanted to place one. The difference between that and travel bugs as I see it is the fact that someone "owns" a TB and watches it's movement with great interest, as even you do. I doubt if anybody could care less if the wet wipes you placed in health and beauty were stuck there a long time because no one had theme items to swap. Not so with travel bugs.

If I am missing something here, please let me know. Happy geocaching, and keep on posting.

Geezer

[BACKPACKNJACK]

Well Geezer, I have thoughts but danged if I have any answers.
When I first saw "travelbug hotels" I thought they were a good ideal to help those ones, that are on long missions/task like mine, get into the hands of those "wayfaring cachers", mostly along the interstates and needing a fun break. I have sense then (here I go again), as best I can remember, heard them called death traps. I can see (as you do) that putting all your eggs in one basket has it's risk but all our caches and their contents are at risk. I was the last recorded visitor to one cache that came up MIA. I took my sister to let her find it but it was gone. I did the fake cell phone bit, got out my walking stick/cane and did the old man just stretching his legs, etc. but even though no muggles were around (not like in rest stops with lots of lookers) it went MIA anyway. When you drop TBs out there they are at the mercy of anyone who finds them just like everything else in the cache. I still see TB stops as theme caches but with expensive tags inside.
TB story: One TB headed to Washington DC sits in New Jersey. Another headed to Washington State ends up in Jersey just miles away vie way of New Mexico. My third one, picked up at a TB stop on I-40, is now MIA.
There are a lot of really nice people in this world but if you think they will respect your stuff the way you do then just loan out your lawnmower or chainsaw or boat or sewing machine and see what happens to them. These same people are intrusted with your cache or your TB or you believe they will replace your foreign coins with others of equal value? I just put it out there and see what the results are. I feel some are just using caches as a second source of income but that is just the nature of our game.

[bmwrider1]

Should the person that is holding a travel bug be contacted by the owner and reminded that they have had it for a period of time? I think if it were something else that I would do so. I have one that has been in the hands of someone for several weeks now.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Hello, bmwrider. It's good to have you on board. Does bmw, by any chance, stand for British Motor Works? Just a wild guess.

I don't think it's at all out of line to contact someone who has held your TB for a long time. Keep this in mind, though. Your purpose is to motivate them to do something. So you have to word it in a way so as not to antagonize them. I have contacted people holding my TB twice, once with success and once without.

Keep on trucking! (That means Happy Geocaching)

Geezer

[GEO]

For the Event this weekend I contacted all the person's who's travel bugs I will place and got the permission from them to do it that way.
They all thanked me for asking them before we did it.

I want to make sure there is no more of the "TB abuse" that was spoke of at a another event.

As far as that goes I have had one of my TB held for about a year now,that's TB abuse.
I have e-mailed them several times and they stated I will get it out there.
It's still there,in there hands
But on the other hand I have one TB that has 18,000 miles.

[bmwrider1]

Hello Geezer, BMW is for Bavarian Motor Works and in my case a motorcycle, I even road it to Flint Rock Hills, Mo last year and stopped by a moble home that had a cache clue in a butterfly house right over a bench mark. That was a cool one. Don’t you think so GEO :lol:
I have put out several jeep’s and find that some of them just seem to run out of gas because they have not moved in a long time. I was thinking maybe a friendly reminder. I know they are not MY travel bugs but I was the first to place them. And I don’t think they are being held just because they are ‘cute” after all you can go to walmart and buy one.

[GEO]

Yes GEO :lol: Has a couple of cute ones.
And I am working on a couple of doozies.
I have seen the jeeps and have not wanted to grab too many up out of cache's beings I have a few that I have logged in.
I will give them a little longer and if no one grabs them I will.
I have a couple of neat one's I have well ,you'll see.
I wonder how many JEEP TB's are just being held for posterity and for collecting purposes,you can't buy them at Walmart these are numbered JEEP TB's editions.

I did get the trike link too.I am not quite that ready yet I do have a Harley Davidson Trike (TRUCK SERIES)that I have had an eye on for a while.
It i always a pleasure to meet other geocachers,that was the goal of those 2 caches (3)1 leg of a cache in the front yard.
good way to maintain them too.