Logs

[rklmbl]

We have read a lot of logs since we have started geocaching in 2004. Because we are human, we have identified some of our favorite log writers and sometimes we want to hit the delete button when we receive some cacher's logs. We do appreciate those that take the extra effort to say more than just TFTC. Yesterday, we received calls at 5:30 am and 8 pm from cachers who were searching for two of our caches that had not been found. One cacher in their zeal to record an FTF did not acknowledge our assistance or express his appreciation for the cache. Not even the weak TFTC on his log. The other cacher reported mbl's assistance in locating the cache and added thanks for the cache to the log. So which log do you think gave us pleasure for placing the cache? We are wise enough to know we are not going to change the world so we leave you with these thoughts:

The pen is the tongue of the mind.
Miguel de Cervantes


I don't pretend we have all the answers. But the questions are certainly worth thinking about.
Arthur C. Clarke


A writer doesn't solve problems. He allows them to emerge.
Friedrich Dürrenmatt


Writers seldom write the things they think. They simply write the things they think other folks think they think.
Elbert Hubbard

[Mickey McGillicutty]

I think an great AR Geocacher once said "Geocaches are like people. Some are pretty, some are not. Some are exciting, some aren't. Some are creative and some are a little dull. But like people, we can always find something nice to say if we put a little effort into it. After all, it's people who read the logs we leave behind and our words have the ability to make someone's day or ruin it."

I too have read many, many logs over the past year & a half. On caches I've found, on caches I DNF'd & on caches I haven't even been to yet. I also have read many great ones & seen plenty of TFTC's. There is one log in particular though that always stood out in my mind. I haven't been able to forget it, since I read it back in March of this year.

GC2QBRG - Ferndale to Paron Cache Trail - #1 (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC2QBRG)

"We want to thank ronwhite for this series from Ferndale to Paron and/or vice versa. We do regret doing this entire series in one afternoon. And we wouldn't have done it if there had been an event nearby this weekend. We would have saved these caches for people coming into the area for the event to try for the FTF. However, the whoopteedoo FTF hounds, cut and paste logs, TFTC logs, logs with nothing there at all done from smartphones, et al, have changed our attitude about many of our fellow geocachers. Whatever happened to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?? We see these changes coming from many younger and new geocachers who apparently have no respect for the game and the history of geocaching. We predict that this will slowly kill the game. We apologize for the rant but, as you know, we have read a lot of logs scattered over Arkansas and elsewhere. But, we will continue to support Arkansas geocaching and do the best job we can on placing caches and writing good logs and holding events."

My prediction: What will slowly kill this game are veteran cachers making new cachers feel unwelcome.

Signed: A Retired Whoopteedoo FTF Hound

Disclaimer: If anyone else feels I'm out of line, feel free to tell me.

Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference. ~Winston Churchill

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. ~Maya Angelou

Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway.
You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

Criticism and pessimism destroy families, undermine institutions of all kinds,
defeat nearly everyone, and spread a shroud of gloom over entire nations. ~Gordon B. Hinckley

ALWAYS REMEMBER... Geocaching is supposed to be FUN!

[OldRiverRunner]

Disclaimer: If anyone else feels I'm out of line, feel free to tell me.


You are.

I agree with rklmbl. If a geocacher calls them for help in order to secure a FTF (especially at 0530!), they ought to at least thank the CO's for their efforts in placing the cache. It's called "good manners", which I guess many who log their finds using smartphones no longer have (and maybe they never had them). And if someone gets upset on being "called out on cache etiquette", I think that says more about them and their inability to accept feedback and constructive criticism, rather than the one providing the feedback.


I have 1 question & I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

1: What does it say about an organization, like ArkGeo, that one of it's Board members says publicly, that the younger, newer generation of cachers will "slowly kill the game", based solely on the fact that our cache logs don't live up to his standards?


It is interesting that the focus of your comments are in regard to a log on Geocaching.com, and not comments voiced here in these Forums. So I'm not sure why ArkGeo would be concerned. Is the organization supposed to review the logs of every one of its Board members and police them? And should it be limited to just the Board members? Why not every member of ArkGeo? After all, wouldn't it reflect badly on the organization if any one of its members voiced their critical opinion publicly in one of their cache logs?

Unless the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution has been revoked, rklmbl are entitled to their opinions and free to voice them, even here in these Forums, regardless of the fact that one of them is on the ArkGeo Board.

"What? Me worry?" -- Alfred E. Neuman

"Where's the beef?" -- Alfred G. Packer

"HO! HO! HO!" -- S. Claus

"I like a good debate!" -- O. R. Runner

[arkfiremedic]

My take on geocaching is simple. My take on ArkGeo is simple. I love to cache. Some members of this organization seem to disagree with me on my take on ArkGeo. My take is this: This is a hobby for me. This is an opportunity for my daughter and I to spend 'quality' family time away from the computer, television, and any other distractions associated with the daily rat race. I cache to be outside and enjoy places I've never been before. I LOVE meeting people, especially other geocachers, while out on the trail. I LOVE to read a good log and enjoy writing good logs (my opinion only- you don't have to tell me if you disagree). I LOVE meet and greets. I have graciously been invited to peoples homes for socializing and have invited geocachers to my home to socialize and enjoyed that. The part of this sport I don't like is the politicing that is associated with geocaching and ArkGeo. I have politics associated with work, church, and other parts of my life. I have refused to 'run' for board positions for this simple reason. I love to cache. I dislike the politics and antics that seem to arise from time to time. I am involved in other geocaching organizations. One in particular in NELA has only an open forum. No president, Vice- president, etc. No dues are paid. No elections. No disputes. No lengthy discussions and multiple committee involvement on things that should be obvious. It is what it is, a forum for people who love to geocache. My wish for the new year for ArkGeo is that we all get along. We have been divided, in my opinion, over the last couple of years on disputes, like this. Our membership cannot grow because of things like this. If I was a new geocacher and registered the FIRST thread I would go to would be geocaching in Arkansas. The first thread would be this particular thread. Think I would hang around and "become a voting member after seeing this?" Of course we all know the answer.

I love to cache! - Justin D. Murphree 2011
I hate politics! - Justin D. Murphree 2011
I love the friends I have made in geocaching, including all the previous who have posted in this thread and value each and every one of those friendships I have made over the years I've been geocaching. - Justin D. Murphree 2011
I hate politics! - Justin D. Murphree 2011
This is a hobby- let us never forget. Justin D. Murphree 2011

[thefab5willisclan]

One of my favorite parts of this game is to sit right here at my computer and log my finds. I enjoy doing that almost as much as finding them. I use a phone as a GPS and it allows me to do paperless caching, but I have noticed that most "newbies" like me that use a phone, tend to log their finds with it instead of posting them as a field note. Newbies also like to use acronyms so that they look less like newbies, they feel "big" because they know what TFTC and SL means. As a log owner I want to know every little detail about your find. I want to know what your were wearing and if you had to go pee or not. O.K. maybe thats too much information, but seriously I can see where RKLMBL are coming from. So far I have been lucky enough so that all my finders have done really well, but I will be dissapointed when I get the TFTC's. But in reading RKLMBL's post it seems to me the main issue is the fact that they give help and someone didn't acknowledge it. Take geocaching completely out of the mix and thats just plain rude. As far as newbies go, they just don't know sometimes what to do. I introduced my brother to geocaching before I even started Caching and he found several Caches signing them with his actual name. He didn't even know there was a website. Maybe when someone downloads the APP they should be forced to watch a video before ever seeing their first coordinates. When I first started I was telling everybody I knew or met about geocaching, but after seeing how some people go about it, I find myself not sharing near as much. I guess I'm selfish. I do love to play this game though. I love to work for hours and days on a Cache trying to solve a puzzle, or searching for that little nano that you know is there because someone just found it. Then I love the feeling of "how come I didn't see that before" and "I looked right at it" I love watching my daughters eyes light up when she finds it before I do. I love finding it before my wife does, and I love it when she beats me to it. We have only been GeoCaching for about 6 months, and already I have made friends, maybe after this post some enemy's. Bottom line I Love this game. I love the way it should be played, and when I see people post logs like they don't really care I don't like it. I want them to love this game like I do. I want them to 'want' to post a good log to tell me how much fun they had finding the log that I am searching for, or hid. I like to go back and look at logs on Caches that I have found and see if other people had just as much fun as I did finding it. Unfortunately not everyone is going to do that, and I will have to be O.K. with that, I guess.
Thats my two cents. And I should probably get change back! :)

I think but nothing happens. Curly Fine

Sometimes when I close my eyes I can't see. unknown

A word to the wise ain't necessary, its the stupid ones that need the advice. Bill Cosby

Daddy, is it a micro or a Box? My son every time we start looking for a Cache he's 3

[OldRiverRunner]

Rklmbl can correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe the cacher whose log prompted this thread is a veteran cacher, NOT a newbie. I also believe the log was NOT submitted from a smartphone, so I shouldn't have even brought that up in my other posting (although I do think the use of smartphones to post logs contributes to the lack of quality in many logs).

[rklmbl]

ORR, you are correct.

[Flyfishingcachers]

We recently had some logs on a few of our caches that simply said F. Don't know for sure what exactly that means, guess it could be several things. Think I would much rather see TFTC than just the letter F. I know I sure do enjoy reading the logs that people write when they find our caches. Before we hid any caches, I never put much thought into the log writing, now I realize what it means to the cache owner to be able to enjoy reading the logs. I have tried to improve my logs since then, I hope I am doing a better job. I do know that I would not be happy if someone called me at 5:30 in the morning to get a hint, and then did not even acknowledge it. All I have to say about the response on this thread is that I was always taught that just because you don't agree with what someone says it doesn't make it right to try to start an argument to prove your point. You can keep it to yourself and try to get along with others. After all, this world would very dull if we were all just alike and thought just alike. We have a good thing going here with geocaching, we are all going to have different opinions, why can't we just keep them to ourselves without doing this on the forum threads for everyone to read.

[Ashallond]

flyfishingcachers, I can probably answer the questions about the 'F' logs.

On the iphone app (and i assume android and Windows7 versions as well) you are no longer allowed to write a field note with a blank comment section. Since I enjoy writing logs, and don't want to write them right then on the fly I'll jot down initials of things I want to expand on later. If I don't have anything specific, quirky, or trackable related I'll just put in an 'F' for found and then field note it to expand later when I get home.

Sometimes though....I accidentally hit the publish log choice instead of save as field note. I think I caught all of mine that I did that. It's very likely that someone else also has that same mentality with the smartphone field notes that I do. If any of those F logs are mine, please let me know. I assure you they weren't intentional.


Arkfiremedic has also exactly summed up my feelings in general as well. I went into lurk mode for a while due to comments and politics that I ran into on this board.

We aren't exactly the most friendly group to new cachers who we don't know in person on this board. I still think communication can be improved.but we need to find that happy middle.




"I don't do quotes" - Ashallond. ;)

[perm74]

Just a game that I have fun doing. You have to take a log for what it's worth. It was what the finder wanted to place in the log, nothing more. Plain and simple. It is just like holding a door for someone or saying excuse me. Not everybody does it and you don't have to agree with them. Just move on to the next minute in your life. I personally like writing a few lines in my logs but don't get upset one bit with a TFTC, SL, ., or anything else the cache finder wants to place in my caches. I place my caches for enjoyment of the finder not self gratification. But with all that said I have never found a geocacher that I didn't like. We are a small community and we need to stick together and have FUN!!!!! I hope this thread get's laid to rest and we continue to be able to have fun at events as they are intended. Thanks for reading... left wife to check my grammer.

[thefab5willisclan]

We aren't exactly the most friendly group to new cachers who we don't know in person on this board. I still think communication can be improved.but we need to find that happy middle.




"I don't do quotes" - Ashallond. ;)

As a new Cacher I disagree with this statement, We were very well recieved on here. I have not had any problems with anyone. We have always thought that everyone was extremely nice on here and out in the field as well. Most of the "discussions" I've seen here have been between Cachers that already know each other. It seems that with just one simple statement, everyone can get their Dander up. Thats what a forum is for though. It's a place we can discuss what we think. Everyone is entitled to speak their mind.

Oh and I love your quote! I LOL'ed out loud. ;)

[Flyfishingcachers]

Ashallond, they weren't yours. I double checked before I made the post on this forum. They haven't been edited yet. Thanks for explaining.

[Night_Hiker]

I've been blessed to have such great logs from several of you and I hope to return the favor once I branch out. To your areas, I got a round of cut and paste logs recently and it's kind of like a slap in the face on those caches you worked extra hard for the finders pleasure. I enjoy returning the favor but most simple finds don't have much room for a juicy log but, putting a little effort into your post isn't hard so there isn't much excuse. Many times i've went back through my caches and reread logs, it's half the fun of geocaching, as rewarding as finding one yourself.

[captaincooder]

Deep down I know that this is "just a game", but then so is Razorback athletics. Geocaching is one of my favorite hobbies, and I am passionate about it. I know that others may only be casual players, so I try not to get upset with log posts, but rather try to look at it as a good sign, that all must be well with the cache, which helps me avoid cache maintenance problems, and aids the next cache hunter in knowing that the cache hasn't disappeared. I strive to write something worthwhile in my posts, even if all I want to add is an angry emoticon. The truth is if I had more skill as a cache hunter, then maybe I wouldn't be so sore ;). I can think of three things that rub me the wrong way, worse than the log post issue, and those are (1) misinformation from crappy D/T ratings; (2) inappropriate hides; and (3) the lack of appropriate clues. But those are debates for another thread. On a recent episode of Podcacher, Sonny pointed out a techie survey in which the stand-alone GPS receiver was predicted to be the most likely gadget to become obsolete within twenty years...simply because it will be integrated with the minicomputer smartphone. The desktop PC was also on that list. Therefore, in Generation "i", I see more folks hunting caches via the app, and the state of log posts deteriorating as it becomes more commonplace to butcher the English language with lazy, bad grammar and ridiculous OMG-LOL-ROFLs. I'm not sure if noobs are slowly killing the game or if it is already dead as we know it. I can certainly remember the game ten years ago, and I was just thinking yesterday what a rare and beautiful thing it is to hide an ammo can in the woods. But I wouldn't trade those days for the fun that I have now with the variety of other cache hides.

As far as the veteran cacher's behavior, especially in an FTF hunt, shame on you. I hope I never find out who it was. You take what is given to you when hunting FTFs and you certainly don't bother the CO at 0530! Remember, you are beta-testing! No wonder some cachers are disgusted with the behavior of FTF hounds.

[SJClimber]

This is an interesting thread dealing with a frustrating issue. Likely the initial complaint “boils down” to etiquette and decent, courteous behavior. Within a community as this, most individuals will not act as that individual described by MBL. Yet there are outliers in any group. Yep, the MBL scenario is irritating, but not much one can do about the behavior, just delete the log and go on. On the other hand, consider the positive responses in the thread. There is still a core of folks who write descriptive, fun logs and those are what we enjoy reading. We all know these individuals and appreciate the time they take when logging a find, thanks..

[DaTexanBoy]

I admit, when I first started, I didn't write very good logs. The one thing that changed me and my logs were hiding my first cache. After the first couple TFTC, it made me evaluate the quality of my own logs. Since then, I have always strived to write a decent log even if the cache is a simple redman or skirt lifter. There is always something interesting to write. You may not think it is as the finder, but to put the cache owner in the mind set of being there as you are finding it....to me is a small treat to the CO. As far as getting awoken at 0530 hrs for a FTF, I probably would have hung up the phone....if I didnt normally get up at that time anyway. I don't look for great logs to be done on my caches, but when there is a good log, it makes it even that more special and appreciated.

[rus]

Just realized that I was the "F" logger. As stated before, it happened when using the geocachimg app on my phone. I put a "F" as a note to myself that I found the cache without any problems or issues. Those were supposed to just go to my fiel notes for editing later, but instead I guess I had selected the "post as log" instead. Touchscreens on these iPhones are so sensitive, I probably just "swiped" the wrong thing. Nothing personal or any reflection of the caches I found. Simply on oversight.

[Flyfishingcachers]

No problems with us on the postings. I know that I am technically challenged at times by some of these new gagets we all seem to have and want now days. They aren't making them any easier to use!!!

[Mickey McGillicutty]

Well, I sure did start a discussion. Couple of things, I wanted to clear up. I love politics... just not in GC'ing. So even though I knew this would spark a debate, I didn't do so with the intent of being political within ArkGeo. Also, I'm not suggesting ArkGeo be responsible for policing cache logs, ORR. I agree with you entirely, that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that voicing one's opinion doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the whole organization. You may not agree with me, but I think voicing that sentiment, is counter-productive to ArkGeo's stated mission "to promote and improve the quality of Geocaching in Arkansas & maintaining Geocaching as a family-friendly activity." I'm simply pointing out how I perceived the comments & how it may be perceived by other cachers.

I always thought FTF's were part of the game. A new cache published & everyone races to see who gets there first. Sometimes meeting up with fellow cachers & sharing the experience of finding the cache. So I don't understand why anyone criticizes people for playing for the FTF's. I don't bother with them myself anymore, because it's too time consuming. But I don't begrudge anyone else who still enjoys rushing out to find a blank log sheet.

It's not fun, for me though, as part of the "younger, newer cachers" to read that the way I might play the game will slowly kill GC'ing. Imagine if the situation were reversed. What if I said publicly, "Man the older veteran cachers just don't get it. If they don't change their ways, GC'ing will disappear."

One last thing & I'll leave it at that. GC'ing IS supposed to be fun & it IS just a game. Everyone reading this I'm sure agrees with that. That's the overall point I'm trying to make. There are days when I feel like writing a novel & days when it's "copy/paste, TFTC!" I'd like to think everyone would be happy/content with the fact that we're all still playing the game & not worry so much about the details.

Have convictions. Be friendly. Stick to your beliefs as they stick to theirs. Work as hard as they do. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

Merry Christmas to all & Happy New Year! ~Mike

Oh yeah, almost forgot, getting a PAF call at 5:30am IS completely ridiculous. Who calls anyone that early for a hint?

[ronwhite]

Think it's time to let this die!! This is not good for geocaching at all!

[Coon&Bud]

I used to write short logs but RKLMBL have encoured me to do better and I do. We can take the time to write. It is one of the few pleasures cache hiders get. I have also wriiten some short logs...the ones on a power trail for example. The ones last year at the cachville event. I do cut and paste those IF the cache owner has posted it is okay. I usually include some detail or two that I change on each log...I just wish my fellow cachers well. Coon&Bud