Snakes

[LadyEngineer]

Okay, we've had the discussion about chiggers and ticks but we've avoided the one that makes my skin crawl as well as gives me nightmares.

On Saturday we did the Toy Chest because we had heard such wonderful things about it and it was great. BUT..... as I was signing the log there were lots of mentions of "The Snake". Well there was a green toy snake in the cahce, so I figured that was the one being talked about. But I emailed Stuckey to ease my mind (hee hee). I have a HUGE phoebia of snakes. All snakes!! Well, just what I was afraid of, he said no that a big, roughly four foot cottonmouth was sunning himself on that wonderful toy chest. I didn't ask if he was on or under the tarp, I know I didn't want the answer to that question.

Which brings me to my point, we (us geocachers) have our young (3 to 10 year-old children) out here looking under rocks and tarps and trees. We have been teaching ours the rules that we learned growing up and being in scouts. What are some rules that everyone else are teaching? What first aid advise does every one have on snake bites? Does any one want to have a recognize the dangers of geocaching workshop for young geocachers?

[arkansas_stickerdude]

The only good snake is a dead snake. If the boys are with me and I see a snake we just go back to the truck and hit that cache later.

[BACKPACKNJACK]

Now here you didn't want me talking about chiggers anymore and you go and start talking about snakes :lol:
I guess you didn't see the boy, I will not rat him out if you don't know who it was, that caught the Rat Snake (about12") 8O at the event.
Snakes are a part of the outdoors but people forget about them (out of sight out of mind)
Here is a link that I keep on my [favorites] but as always I admonish all to remember that exotics are found (escapees) more often then you may think so you may come up on something that is not on this site.
http://www.agfc.com/critters/wildlife_snake.html

One tip from a cautious old man: Get sticks for those kids to poke around with just like us old paranoid old folk. Snakes love to hide under piles of leaves and bark and limbs, etc. I explore what I can with my old mountian stick before putting my hands near anything in the woods or near water when caching.
An Edit to make one of my points:
Here is another link about snakes in Arkansas.
http://www.geo-outdoors.info/listed_by_state.htm
If you went and checked it out (like the name "geo bla,bla,info"?) you would not be aware of Timber Rattlers, right?
http://www.agfc.com/wma_lakes/wma_earl_buss.html
Skin crawling yet? There are researchers that track Timber Rattlers in the State. One 113cm long (don't know how long that is and don't even want to look it up) that has a tracker on it and it eats full grown squirrels. Hey...you started it. This thread that is :wink: . Just kidding, I'm glad you did.
Maybe we need a cover-all, creep-out, out-door critter page so those who didn't want to see it (like maybe the chigger link I put up that shows how they cement to you 8O ) don't come across it by accident.

[GEO]

This would be a good place to bring up
CERT
http://www.training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/images/certnewlogo.gif

Community Emergency Response Teams.
http://www.training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/CERT/
I am a member of the SW Missouri (BARRY/LAWRENCE CERT TEAM)
It is one of my main goals to teach people what to do in Emergency situations,(ALL).

I am also a member of the Greater Ozark Chapter
DAT
Disater Action Team.
http://www.redcross-ozarks.org/images/Logo.gif

http://www.redcross-ozarks.org/

If we all get involved with the learning,and teaching others what to do we have a better start than most.
There are numerous things outdoors and indoors as well that can be life threatning.
So get Involved.

There are several here in this group that are a part of the
SW MISSOURI GEOCACHERS
or ARK-MO-GEOCACHERS

http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/dynamic_shared/images/header_page_usafc_link.gif
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers/

[Phantom_491]

What are some rules that everyone else are teaching? What first aid advise does every one have on snake bites? Does any one want to have a recognize the dangers of geocaching workshop for young geocachers?

Some rules I go by.

If you see a snake, or other animal chances are unless they are injured, if you leave them alone and keep your distance, then they will leave you alone.

If by chance you get bitten by a snake (In No particular order):

1. Stay Calm (Panicking increases the heartrate, which increase blodflow, which will spead up the spread of the venom.
2. If you can safely catch & kill the snake, Do it. The hospital will need to know what anti-venom to administer, and by bringing in the snake's body then they can make a positive ID.
3. Don't try to suck the venom out. This is a change from when I was in Boy Scouts many moons ago, Ok at least a decade and a half ago.
4. Call 911. This will also help get the ER ready for you and have the anti-venom standing by.
5. Have someone else drive you to the hospital. Just in case the Venom starts affeting you.

I learned a lot last summer over the 4th of July weekend, when my brother-in-law was bitten by a young (Juvenile) copperhead. He took off running and started to get in his own vehicle to drive himeself to the hospital (20 Miles away). Luckily someone stopped him. I knew that the hosptial would like to have the snake to ID it so they can administer the proper A-V serum, so I Started looking for it, and proceeded toi catch it bare handed (Just like the Croc Hunter). I held it behind the jaws so there was no chance of it biting me, and calmly asked for a bucket or something to put it in. We then headed towards the house to head to the hospital. By this time my brother-in-law was already headed that way.

Anyway, We got the snake (Still alive) to the hospital, and the local police met us at the door, saw I was carrying a bucket and asked if that was the snake, and if it was still alive. I told them yes to both. THey took the bucket from me and took it accross the street. Another officer went in to find out if staff needed to see the snake they said that since an officer had already ID'd the snake they didn't need to see it. They then proceeded to destroy the snake. My brother-in-law was fine, the snake just barely grazed his big toe.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Thanks for the links, Jack. It's good to have a handy place with pictures to identify snakes. The timber rattlers are the ones that scare me. If I'm not mistaken, they have no rattlers to warn you with. I could be wrong about that. I think 113 centimeters would be around 4 feet. Just a wild guess.

The Ar Game & Fish link said it was unlawful to indescriminately kill snakes. I don't know how they define indescriminate, but if a poison snake gets in my back yard he's a goner. Lum & Abner sound the warning and and I do my thing. The score for this summer is two cottonmouths and one copperhead. Living on the lake, snakes are a fact of life. I leave the non-poisonous alone. When I lived back at Olive Hill, the house had an outside faucet that dripped. During the dry summertime there was a speckled king snake that came up for water often. We saw him several times for about three years running.

When I'm in the geocaching wilds, I definitely use a stick to poke around with before endangering my hands. I also use it to wail and flail to make lot's of noise so as to give the snakes warning and a chance to vacate the area before I get there.

[LadyEngineer]

1 foot = 30.48 cm so 113 cm = 3.7075 feet

Thanks for the links. Education is the way to deal with your fears. I'm still scared so I'm not educated yet.

[Gaddiel]

Here is another good link:

Snakes of Arkansas (http://www.snakesofarkansas.com/)

We've had a few encounters with poisonous snakes. The scariest one was this one (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=203c6e15-bd4e-460a-9269-55e47d9daa16), because Lil' One was close by. We also saw a couple on this recent trip (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=2f3f51cd-8089-48df-ac04-8fa7db1da1d9).

If we see a snake, we usually just let him have his space and go back the other way.

[BACKPACKNJACK]

Thanks Geezer.
Another tip<phssss>. (Not that I would personally know :wink: ) But, if you weigh 225 and have a good arm I think you can kill a Copperhead and bury it in one stroke with a splitting mal. :twisted:
I had two snake skins, until the vacuum ate them, of what I think (sure do hope) was a Rat Snake that I found in my yard. Not the wooded area, I'm talking about up by the house, the first one being 6 1/2' and the next year's skin was 7 1/2'. I saw this snake in the garden once (didn't know the liked veggies) (or mabe they like gardeners 8O ) and it looked just like a hugh Rattler so I figured I could probably live without squash for a few days. Haven't found any more skins from it but I found a site just for Rat Snakes that had pictures of all the variants in pattern and color.
I have almost every kind of snake you can think of up here on this sandy hill, Hognose Snakes (Pretty, lots of fun, don't seem to see as many as I used to), King Snakes (thank goodness), Copperheads (mean), Rat Snakes (they get up to about 8 1/2'), Pigmy Rattlers(hard to spot and will nail you), Earth Snake (the Herp. at the L.R. Zoo said the one I took to them was the largest they had ever measured so I put it back where I got it). My neighbor killed :oops: (accidently ran over) the two biggest Copperheads I have ever seen in my life a few years ago just at the bottom of my place. I could not believe how big they were and he ran over both of them the same AM. My youngest Brother and me were standing in the back yard when a juv. Cooperhead fell from the sky (a hawk lost it) about 8 feet from us 8O . I will not "Quote" what was said by both of us. Yep! Snakes do be a part of life in the outdoors but I wouldn't trade all my snakes for just one of your Cottonmouths (the stories I could tell).
Geee I like this thread. :D Thanks!!

[Rusty_da_dog]

Course a 12 gauge strapped on your back would probably be a little too much to deal with an urban snake problem......or any problem I guess.
Though a couple of weeks ago, I took my 9MM when I went to check on my cache in West Texas, there was a BIG rattlesnake there last year and I was prepared this time.
Cya on the trails,
Rusty

[BooCrew]

Snakes...... I like them as much as I do micros. :? Apparently, I shouldn't have placed so much worry on running into one outdoors during our adventures though. I spent Friday morning hunting down a two foot snake in Joshua's bedroom. Talk about sweating bullets. I have since been informed that it was not a cooperhead as I had thought. But at 8:30 am fresh from the shower and dressed in a towel, my mind wasn't exactly in a place to really care. Besides, did I mention snakes rate right up there with micros?

PS It's amazing what you can accomplish with a Swiffer dust mop and a metal yard stick.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Lum and Abner sounded the "snake in the yard" alarm late this afternoon. It turned out to be juvenile hog nose snake - around 6 to 8 inches. I haven't seen any of these in quite a while. This is the kind that plays dead. It turns over on it's back, opens it's mouth wide open and let's it's tongue hang out limp. It's really funny to watch. I played with it a while then put it outside the fence.

[grandkid44]

During my years o f medical practice Ive treated four snake bites. They are indeed rare .. the most venemous in Ark isn the cottonmouth, then the rattlesnake , then the copperhead. Though dangerous , the corral snake has such a small mouth envenamation rarely occurs in humans. The most dangerous situation is to be walking a path beside a natural ledge and the snake strike your face or neck. Aprx 30percent of the time the snake will have no venom..unfortunately you cant count on that. A bite on the leg or arm is rarely fatal..mostly in elderly or small child. Venemous snakes are pit vipers...this means they have a small pit on top of their head. Their heads are triangular , except the corral . Some soun d advice has already been given in this forum ..do not lacerate the bite ,try to suck the venom ,etc., within a fraction of a second the venom is already through your body. Get to the hospital as quickly as possible...ALL Ark hospitals carry the anti venom..if bitten on the face or neck and you are any distance away you have one thing on your side ..call 911 , Babtist or Ark Childrens can dispatch a helicopter to you pronto and can start the antivenom when they arrive on the scene... all you have to do is get to a clearing large enough for the copter..also call local law enforcement so they can secure the landing area. I had to call them once . I was in Scott , at Cothams , when a diner arrested..in 18 minutes the BMC chopper was on the ground...the pt survived. With your gps you can give the pilot an exact position. He has an on board gps. You need to learn to identify a poisonous snake .. Give all snakes a clear berth. Given the chance , a snake will do everything in its power to avoid you . If you walk slowly the snake feels the vibration and will depart the area before you arrive. In most encounters between a snake and a human the snake is the that dies.

[topkitty98]

8O 8O 8O

SNAKES ALIVE!!!!
Seriously, Grandkid, I SO much appreciate this advice! I had never thought about the ledge thing. I also didn't know about the gps on board a helicopter, but that makes sense also.

It is so good to have intelligent friends!

Thanks!
topkitty
:wink:

[cz-5]

I recently started caching with my children (5 and 7 years old). I've gotten them hiking boots and walking sticks. I'm still worried about them poking around in the wrong place.
We've enjoyed the little bit of hunting that we've done but, my wife found a baby copperhead in the front yard yesterday and now I'm afraid shes' going to put a stop to our excursions into the woods.
What about snake boots for kids?

[chimps8mybaby]

Since I paddle a lot, I felt better when I learned that:

1)Water moccasins, or "Cottonmouths," are relatively short and wide. Water snakes are longer and more slender.

2)Water moccasins bask on land, or on logs and stumps near water surface.
Water snakes are good climbers and spend a lot of time basking on branches hanging over water.

3)Water moccasins move slowly and defend their territory while water snakes move quickly away from disturbances.

4)When swimming, cottonmouths keep their heads elevated above the water and bodies riding nearly on the water surface. Water snakes keep their head and body low and below the water surface.

5)Cottonmouths always cock their heads at a 45 degree angle on land. Water snakes keep their heads level with the ground.

#4 has kept many innocent snakes from getting whacked with a kayak paddle. The moccasins also usually have a couple of yellowish/green stripes down their throat too.

[pshelto]

I know this thread is about snake tips and the only one I have is to be cautious. I have stuck my hand under rocks in New Mexico, Arkansas, Texas and I am still alive (so luck is a big part too). However, I do have some great snake and geocache stories.

I was looking for a cache at a waterfall in Vicksburg, MS with my girlfriend. She had already tumbled down the hill and was out rock hopping when she fell forward. Her hand was just about two feet from a snake. We didn't identify it (all snakes are generally bad, even though I find them fascinating) but it was enough that she now doesn't like geocaching with me. If you factor in the large snake we saw while hiking/geocaching at Petite Jean (which she stumbled upon) you can understand why she doesn't care for caching so much.

Looking back, I might invest in snake boots, except they seem rather uncomfortable.

[rocky577]

while out looking for a few caches at Tar camp park in redfeild i was bitten by a cotton mouth. I was in depth in the screen of my GPS trying to get to ground Zero. Must a reminder always check where you step regardless of how close you are to the cache. It was a small juevinile snake but it didn't inject any venom it was a dry bite. none the less i carried the snake to the hospital still alive. after it was determined it was a dry bite i carried it to my deer lease and released it. No harm no foul. Just pay attention to where you step and not so much to the screen on the gps.

[astrodav]

Not geocaching, but working with AP&L (Entergy) years ago, I was bitten by a Copperhead not too far from your area. I actually lived at the time in Sheridan, but my office at the time was the one in Little Rock, which included the Sardis/East End area. I drove myself to the VA hospital & pretty much passed out right upon entering the ER. But they shot me up with several vials of anti-venin, which screwed me up worse than the snake-bite itself, & patched me all up.

A couple years later I got it again from a baby Rattler I was trying to play with. (I have a nasty habit of doing that, since I'm not afraid of snakes at all :oops: ) But his fangs were just barely long enough to penetrate skin & I received no AV for it .... didn't want any after the first time.

Got another bite about 3 years ago from, of all things, a little Green-Snake that .... well, I was playing with too.

I can tell you with affirmation, as you most likely can also, it's not an interesting experience.

[wilddav]

Not geocaching, but working with AP&L (Entergy) years ago, I was bitten by a Copperhead not too far from your area. I actually lived at the time in Sheridan, but my office at the time was the one in Little Rock, which included the Sardis/East End area. I drove myself to the VA hospital & pretty much passed out right upon entering the ER. But they shot me up with several vials of anti-venin, which screwed me up worse than the snake-bite itself, & patched me all up.

A couple years later I got it again from a baby Rattler I was trying to play with. (I have a nasty habit of doing that, since I'm not afraid of snakes at all :oops: ) But his fangs were just barely long enough to penetrate skin & I received no AV for it .... didn't want any after the first time.

Got another bite about 3 years ago from, of all things, a little Green-Snake that .... well, I was playing with too.

I can tell you with affirmation, as you most likely can also, it's not an interesting experience.
8O 8O 8O //YOU play with snake'S
w0w yea the only way i play with snakes is when i pull out the flame throwers 0r the rocket luncher or even call in a air strike to just kill the snake on site !!!