Cemetary and Church Geocaches

[HercRx]

I am curious to know what people in the Arkansas geocaching community think of church and cemetary geocaches. There seem to be quite a bit of them around here. After geocaching in Alaska where there are not a lot of cemetery caches they give me the creeps....especially when there isn't a note on the cache page saying that the owners of the cemetery or church gave permission. What do the rest of you think?

[RugerPilot345]

Most that I have seen are very respectful and do not invade on the privacy or the sanctity (sp??) of the location......I think they are a neat look into the history of our great state!!

Just my two cents.......ha ha!!

Cool!!

[nonnipoppy]

At first we felt a degree of creepiness when searching for caches in a cemetery. Experience has changed that for us. There are significantly interesting sights in almost every cemetery that we have ever visited. Prior to caching our visits were almost always associated with sadness and loss.

If not for geocaching we would never have visited many truly beautiful, interesting and peaceful places.

A significant find to us was the multi cache that requires information from the headstone of WalMart founder Sam Walton. It is amazing to us that a loved one from such a wealthy family rests under such a modest stone. It speaks volumes about having your priorities in the correct order.

We have found caches that were requested by the departed, in honor of the departed, and commemorating the lives of the departed. As long as the cache is done in good taste we now enjoy them a lot. A person looking around in a cemetery is seldom noticed and raised little suspicion.

We now have caches hidden in several cemeteries and think they are respectfully of the permanent residents there.

[cachecrazies]

We can't be as eloquent as Poppy - but we echo his sentiments entirely! We love these cemetery caches - mostly for the history involved!

We have learned so much - we never treat these as a "grab and run" cache. We always look around (except when we're with rklmbl) :twisted:

We loved the cemetery caches in White and Johnson Counties so decided to do the same thing in our county.

We've learned so much about our own counties history because of the cemeteries. And we wouldn't have visited those cemeteries without caching. We've even bought a book from the Historical Society so we can check everything out. We've driven by several of these small cemeteries for years and never knew they were there - maybe caching will cause some people to visit the abandoned cemeteries and acknowledge the lives that were lived in the past.

We believe that all of our caches have been respectful and encourage all cachers to do the same.

[HercRx]

Thanks! I'm glad for the feedback. It was so speedy! This whole cemetery geocache thing is new to me. Like I said, there didn't seem to be as many in Alaska as there are here. Maybe its because 99% of the state of Alaska is public land...and it seems like 99% of Arkansas isn't. It seems more difficult to find somewhere to put a cache here. Its amazing how different geocaching is here...especially with the threat of snakes, ticks and chiggers. With bears, wolves and moose, Alaska gives a whole other meaning to "getting eaten up by the critters."

[flannelman]

I really like this type of cache. They take me to some really interesting places filled with history. You can learn a lot about an area by visiting it's cemetary. I also like to look at the stones to see what they tell about the life of the person that is resting there. I just went to a neat cemetary in Plainview this last weekend.

[cachemates]

We love cemetery caches. We like to look at the headstones and each cemetery will be different. While on a trip to Indiana ( And they have many cemetery caches there) We saw two Revolutionary War Solider graves.

We saw the grave of a family that died in the I-40 bridge collapse in Oklahoma, While we were at the Paris Event.

We met a family cleaning their mother's grave that had died of breast cancer. We have visited many cemeteries that we would have never seen if not for geocaching.

We placed a cache in honor of my Agri Teacher, and also one for our Typing Teacher. Our English Teacher will probably be next. These people was both our teachers and, We have many good memories of them and wanted to place these caches for them.

We do not feel we are being disrespectful when geocaching in a cemetery, it is just another trip down memory lane. We will all be in a cemetery some day, I hope some one takes the time to visits my grave.

[oenavigator]

:D

[Geezer_Veazey]

I agree with everything that has been said about cemetery caches. I love them. Creepy? - not at all. I lived across the road from a cemetery for over 30 years and not one time did any of the residents cause the slightest bit of disturbance.

You struck on one thing that too few people pay attention to, namely:

....especially when there isn't a note on the cache page saying that the owners of the cemetery or church gave permission.
All land everywhere is owned by someone, even cemeteries. I know of very few government owned cemeteries so they must be privately owned. The guidelines say you must get the owner's permission to place a cache on private lands. I dare say 99.9% of the cemetery caches were placed without permission.

You cache hiders need to get your act together as far as cemeteries go. Get permission and post details of the permission in the cache description. I would hate for a Sherwood police incident to happen in one of our fine cemeteries.

Geezer

[kevnjenn]

We like them. Lots of history to be seen, especially at some of the veterans cemeteries. I put one out at the cemetery next to the church Jenn and I got married at back home in MO. Her grandparents are buried there, and we used clues from their headstone to make it a multi. Grandma Hazel loves visitors. And we did get permission before putting it out.

kevnjenn

[HercRx]

Sorry! I need to explain my self. My use of the word "creepy" refers to the way that I feel when I'm geocaching and there is someone not too far away that is obviously grieving at the grave of a loved one. It just feels wierd, thats all. Geezer did bring out the point I was looking for though.....and I wondered the same thing....why do we not have permission from most of the landowners?

[oenavigator]

:D

[nonnipoppy]

..............You struck on one thing that too few people pay attention to, namely:

....especially when there isn't a note on the cache page saying that the owners of the cemetery or church gave permission.
....................You cache hiders need to get your act together as far as cemeteries go. Get permission and post details of the permission in the cache description. I would hate for a Sherwood police incident to happen in one of our fine cemeteries.

Geezer

This is a great point! But saying you have permission on the cache page does not mean you really did get the permission. On the other hand having permission does not require it to be put on the cache page. I daresay that 90% of the cemetery caches in Johnson County ARE placed with permission. We even have cemetery board members as cache placers. Just as we have church members placing caches at their place of worship. In one instance the cache was placed by the music director of the church.

Everyone is different but we prefer to assume that ALL caches are placed with permission. If in fact we find that is not correct we will deal with that situation when the need arises and spend no energy worrying in advance.

[Gaddiel]

Everyone is different but we prefer to assume that ALL caches are placed with permission. If in fact we find that is not correct we will deal with that situation when the need arises and spend no energy worrying in advance.

Just like you, nonnipoppy, we assume that everyone is playing by the rules and has gotten permission before placing a cache.

However, it is VERY comforting when the owner explicitly states on the cache page that permission was received. Even better would be to know the person or body that gave that permission, although this is not always appropriate or feasible.

I'm not saying everyone should start doing it that way, but as a seeker, it IS reassuring to see it.

Wayne

[HercRx]

Does anyone think it should be a requirement to put a note on a cache page to annotate permission from a private landowner?

I know it would make me 100% more comfortable to search for a cache when I knew before hand that I wouldn't be met by an angry or just extremely overcautious and suspicious landowner/ mourner/ church pastor. Its nice to see when a cache page says "This cache was placed with permission of (insert name here), landowner and caretaker."

We need to be extremely careful to uphold the reputation of the sport we enjoy through good stewardship of parks and private property alike. As a one-time private pilot, I can attest to the damage that can be done to a sport once public opinion begins to turn against it through misunderstanding.

In this day and age just one 6 o'clock news story about a "tresspassing geocacher" could lead to legislation that makes our sport much less enjoyable and accessible.

[SJClimber]

HercRx wrote:

In this day and age just one 6 o'clock news story about a "tresspassing geocacher" could lead to legislation that makes our sport much less enjoyable and accessible.

Consider the turmoil in South Carolina in 2006. Efforts in the SC House to severly restrict caching in an number of public venues (including cemeteries) ultimately failed in their Senate, but only with herculean efforts by the State geocaching group. This arose after some foolish cachers posed next to a tombstone in a less than repectful manner. The photo of this created quite an uproar. Not tresspassing per se, but...
To your first question. Though I'm not sure we need testimony on each cache page that permission has been obtained for the placement, it would not hurt if there was any question about property ownership.

[nonnipoppy]

Does anyone think it should be a requirement to put a note on a cache page to annotate permission from a private landowner?



http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d188/nonnipoppy/sig_popcorn.gif

[HercRx]

I'm glad we're talking about this. I think we started a good discussion!
!! :D

[oenavigator]

:D

[Geezer_Veazey]

Everyone is different but we prefer to assume that ALL caches are placed with permission.
A lot of bad things can happen when you assume (pronounced ass'u'me'). Whenever a cache hider makes a representation I take them at their word. If they are silent on permission, I assume that permission was not sought. Oftentimes I deem the risk not sufficient to deter me, but not always. To me, the ideal situation as a cache hunter would be to have the permittor named in the cache description for possible future reference, if needed.

I think one solution would be to provide that info to the reviewer and have he/she verify and then place a note stating:

Cache placed with permission of owner verified by reviewer......
This would work for me, but it may be putting too much of a burden on the reviewer who is a volunteer and I imagine already under a pretty heavy load.

Geezer

P.S. I just hit the preview button and got a chuckle when I discovered that the host software changed my pronunciation of 'assume'

[HikerRon]

having recently moved to AR from Colorado, i'm really enjoying the caches placed in cemetaries. they can be in very secluded locations, very quiet and peaceful. if there is anyone at the cemetary, i just move along. i would never disturb anyone visiting there for any reason. i find the history very interesting, and i enjoy looking at the headstones and epitaphs.
in Colorado, there are very few caches in cememtaries, and i think the ones that are there were grand-fathered in when they decided not to permit any containers in cemetaries. there are a few virtual caches out there as well.
as for MY headstone, it will probably have a Garmin compass page on it with a 'go to' arrow', hopefully pointing straight up with 'distance to next' being
'unknown':)

[HercRx]

Hiker Ron-

Your idea for a headstone RULES!!!

Thanks for your input. This has been a very interesting thread. I'm glad folks are so good about talking nicely on this forum.

HercRX

[geowoodstock]

Don't forget that you just might be trespassing when finding all the Tram-law caches or fast food places or any other "public places" with caches that are actually privately owned.

According to the general censes in here those need to be approved by the owner of the land as well.

This being said a lot of land (and buildings) that businesses are on are not even owned by the business itself, but rented/leased from another party. You are talking about a long period of trying to get permission before even finding the correct person who can grant the appropriate premission for a cache to be on their land.

I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I don't know of too many cachers who would not take the time to obtain the 3rd party's persmission much less the city's or the governing body's permission before placing a cache.

As an individual, responsible for your own actions, you must proceed with caution AND CARE when finding any cache whether it is on private or public land.

[HercRx]

Don't forget that you just might be trespassing when finding all the Tram-law caches or fast food places or any other "public places" with caches that are actually privately owned.

According to the general censes in here those need to be approved by the owner of the land as well.

This being said a lot of land (and buildings) that businesses are on are not even owned by the business itself, but rented/leased from another party. You are talking about a long period of trying to get permission before even finding the correct person who can grant the appropriate premission for a cache to be on their land.

This is an interesting thought as well. I have done a few of these caches and often have wondered if anyone (in charge) in the store or restaurant knows or approves the cache. Granted, the big owners in Bentonville might not know or approve a cache, but shouldn't the approval of the store manager or leasee be enough? After all, they are the ones beholden to the service their big bosses. Also, the question deserves to be ask....with Tram-laW's global reach don't we think that they knew about geocaching and formulated their stance long ago? Surely a cache has been found by a muggle employee, brought to the attention of someone in charge who has talked about it at length with corporate.

Regardless of any of this....the bottom line still stands: All geocaches placed on private property should have permission from the owner or administrator. AND...it is a warm fuzzy feeling to see proof of such permission on the geocaching page.