Ouachita National Forest Caching

[Team_Pink]

Let me see if I am hearing what you are saying.

Arkgeo leadership is unresponsive
There is no accountability
Lack of communications from the leadership

I think these are issues than can be handled by the bylaws. There were some known issues with the bylaws all along. I think generally the membership wanted to get the show on the road and push something through. That has been done. I agree that it is time to take a hard look at the bylaws and make changes.

I propose that the newly elected officials meet at the Lake Catherine event, and make some needed changes in short order. This discussion could be used as a guideline.

[Team Panda]

I'm sorry Pink, I'm sure I'm going to sound at least abrasive and possibly combative when I say this, but please accept my promise to you that I intend neither.

Are you hearing me, or are you seeing it for yourself?

I don't want or need ANYONE to simply take my word for ANYTHING.

If you disagree with me, please say so and I'll type until my fingers are numb and read until my vision blurs if that's what it takes for us to come to an agreement.

I think a meeting with the Board of Directors at this time is probably too little, too late. Besides, I have friends on that Board, who are apparently powerless, and I have no desire to set them up to take the fall for the real "problem children" in the group.

The Steering Committee, now Board of Directors, was originally formed using the argument that an elected leadership would be better able to represent the geocachers of Arkansas in exactly the sort of occasions like you mentioned in your last post, and this current issue with the ONF.

How's that working out for us?

I think at this point, our best bet is to completely dissolve the Board and move the AGA to a form of Electronic Direct Democracy.

[Team_Pink]

I doubt that dissolving the board would achieve any worthwhile goals. I don't think you would have the support of the majority of the folks who frequent this board to do so either.

To be clear, I disagree that the current board should be dissolved. I think we need an "official" organization to represent Arkansas geocachers. I think Arkgeo has the membership in both quantity and quality to justify that Arkgeo be that organization.

I do agree that there needs to be some changes in the bylaws.

If you think that the board is controlled by one or two, then let's change the bylaws so that there is accountability and fix the problem rather than starting from scratch. I think we should work this out as a group and be unified rather than divided. There is a solution to these issues and with honest communication and hearty debate, we can find them without being divided while not necessarily agreeing on every point.

I'm asking you to help our group, of which you are a part, to find a solution that will leave us intact and healthy. Expressing your opinion is healthy, calling for division is not.

[searcykid]

I think communication from the board, or lack thereof, is the reason Team Panda is so upset. I too would like to know if the board has even noticed this issue and if they have any plans to address it to the NFS or to us the members.

Like I said in my other post, keep us informed. Either on this website or in a NEWSLETTER . not a personal email to one or two but a general mailing of the same information to all.

But I also think that we have time to discuss this rationally. I don"t think taking a week or two to discusss this will affect the outcome at all. In fact it seems a "cooling off" period would be best right now. What I am more afraid of is that someone will foul it up for everyone by rushing in to the NFS offices before deciding what they are going to say and to whom and blows his/her top .
I have dealt with the government before and you cannot demand anything.
You cannot shout at them that the NFS belongs to us and expect any response except to be escorted out by the police. Then Geocaching would be doomed for sure.

So, who is going to pick up the ball at the Board and tell us what if anything the ArkGeo position here is before it does become "Too Late".

[Parrot Parents]

May I ask how anyone can 'pick up the ball' so to speak, when there has been NO INFORMATION forthcoming??

I am willing to travel back to Arkansas and speak directly to government officials.... but not until FULL DISCLOSURE has been made by the alleged "Board Members" - whom I am beginning to doubt even exist - as surely no one could be so dumb as to nor respond to the membership!

If the "Board" does indeed exist, WHY is there no communication from them? Do they have no idea what to do??? HAVE they even communicated with anyone in the government? These are simple questions and have very simple answers.... so why the silence? Are they afraid to admit they don't know? or do they only represent selected areas of Arkansas? (Note: these are again, simple questions)

[mountainborn]

Sixty four replies and one thousand six hundred plus looks at this thread.
Should a board member be so foolish as to post anything, it would picked apart so savagely that . . . . . . .
You know they are reading this.
You know they are talking about it.
Trying to goad them into a response to flush them out in the open so the entire pack can attack and savage them ? Embarrasing, totally embarrasing.

[Team Panda]

Team Pink said...

Expressing your opinion is healthy, calling for division is not.

I'm not calling for a division, I'm simply recognizing that a division already exists. A division created by the Board of Directors by refusing to speak to the members of the organization they supposedly govern.

It's funny. Most of the time when I post, the board is fairly deserted. Then, I post, I wait about 20 or 30 minutes and suddenly I look at the "Who is Where" feature on the left side of this screen and I start seeing the same names popping up over and over again. Every time I post, cell phones start ringing, IMs start flying, and everybody rushes to see what the Evil Panda has written this time.

So obviously, they have the time to deal with problems. (Just not problems WE think are important!)

Obviously, they are COMPLETELY aware of what is going on.

And just as obviously, they still choose to say and do NOTHING.

As I said before, the only thing required to turn me from adversary to ally is to come in, answer questions, state what they intend to do, and be willing to discuss the issue in an adult manner.

Yet the Board chooses to remain absolutely silent.

Now Mountainborn seems to think asking questions and expecting answers is the wrong tactic. Apparently he thinks the best way to get answers is to stop asking questions. Or, perhaps he thinks it's okay to ask questions, it's just rude to expect answers.

According to him, the Board is remaining silent because they're scared to death of that BIG MEAN NASTY PANDA GUY who will lay in wait for them on the trail and say mean things to them if they do exactly what he says.

Good grief, you've got to be kidding.

You know, you can either attempt to demonize me in order to serve your friends, or you can choose to address the real problems and serve everyone.

Your choice.

But you know, you're right about one thing. After this ridiculous amount of time has passed, when and IF the Board ever reveals its super-secret-need-to-know-basis-eyes-only-kill-yourself-before-reading plan, it's going to have to be something pretty sectacular to explain this ridiculously long delay.

AND STILL THE BOARD SAYS NOTHING!

[Team Panda]

Oh, I wanted to address some of what SK had to say...

I think communication from the board, or lack thereof, is the reason Team Panda is so upset.

Uh, ya think?

I too would like to know if the board has even noticed this issue and if they have any plans to address it to the NFS or to us the members.

And I very sincerely thank you for having the apparently enormous courage it requires to stand up and say so. I'm getting very tired of being alone on the firing line.

But not tired enough that I'll stop demanding REAL communication from the Board.

Like I said in my other post, keep us informed. Either on this website or in a NEWSLETTER . not a personal email to one or two but a general mailing of the same information to all.

A Newsletter containing official statements from the Board is an EXCELLENT idea. It's also something that should have been done from the start.

But I also think that we have time to discuss this rationally. I don"t think taking a week or two to discusss this will affect the outcome at all. In fact it seems a "cooling off" period would be best right now.

SK, there has been NO DISCUSSION.

Me sitting here asking the Board to TALK TO US does not qualify as a DISCUSSION.

As far as the Board is concerned, there's certainly no need for THEM to cool down, they haven't done anything to get warmed up!

And if I take a "cooling off period" well, I guess the Board will sit back and enjoy the peace and quiet.

But they sure won't change what they're doing.

What I am more afraid of is that someone will foul it up for everyone by rushing in to the NFS offices before deciding what they are going to say and to whom and blows his/her top .
I have dealt with the government before and you cannot demand anything.
You cannot shout at them that the NFS belongs to us and expect any response except to be escorted out by the police. Then Geocaching would be doomed for sure.

Yes, I've had that fear myself. I've been very concerned somebody with the Board's authority in hand, would go stomp where they should softpeddle, and softpeddle where they should stomp, and SCREW IT UP FOR ALL OF US.

So, who is going to pick up the ball at the Board and tell us what if anything the ArkGeo position here is before it does become "Too Late".

Who indeed, my friend. Who indeed.




~crickets chirp~

[Team Panda]

Sorry, one last thought then I'm shutting up for the night.

Mountainborn said...

Trying to goad them into a response to flush them out in the open so the entire pack can attack and savage them ?

Why should I have to GOAD them to get a response?

Why should I have to "FLUSH THEM OUT INTO THE OPEN?"

They are supposed to represent us. They're supposed to ALWAYS be "in the open."

NOBODY HERE VOTED TO ELECT A SECRET GOVERNMENT!

And finally, I'd like to know the answer to this one...

Since when did the membership of AGA become a PACK?

I mean, you're obviously not talking about just me. I know I'm EVIL MEAN AND ROTTEN, but even evil old me would have a hard time making a one man pack. So, apparently anyone not willing to sit down, shut up, and leave the grownups alone is part of a pack?

I think you're giving us some insights you really didn't intend to let slip and I think you have a right to be embarassed.

Just not for the reasons you pretend.

[oenavigator]