PDA

View Full Version : OPEN LETTER TO CHUCK WALLA



mountainborn
12-12-2009, 08:28 PM
Dear chuck,
Since most of my geocaches are out in the national forest, they likely do not meet your exacting standards. Out of 42 caches you have archived five, a pretty high percentage.
The last time I tried to place a new geocache, you decided that your software was more accurate than my on the ground measurement of the distance to a railroad and you did not allow the cache, even though I have been placing quality caches for years, it is obvious that a new standard now applies.
The area in question is being developed by the national forest as a recreation area and there is road construction as well as logging. All of which effect geocaches. The log truck traffic is probably as dangerous as railroad traffic, hence all of my geocaches are of a suspect nature.
The USFS has never issued a permit for any of my caches near the white eyed coyote cousin, they were there way before all of that came up. I feel that they are grandfathered in because my conversation with the district ranger indicated that they were ok because of no policy at the time. However I expect that your elevated standards may well disallow all of my geocaches, even though many have enjoyed them over the years.
I am currently geocaching up in Kansas, so I cannot do anything with my geocaches.
Please find below a list of my dangerous and substandard geocaches to facilitate your archiving of them. Delete them as your time permits.

You own 42 cache listing(s)
Name Date
Blue Eyed Coyote Brothers Found: 11/16/2009
West End Found: 11/16/2009
N80A Found: 11/16/2009
53900 Found: 11/16/2009
N76B Found: 11/16/2009
52200 Found: 11/16/2009
82021 Found: 11/16/2009
East End Found: 11/15/2009
Cuttin' Firewood Found: 11/15/2009
Huckle Berry Patch Found: 11/15/2009
Lock Yer' Hubs Found: 11/15/2009
Tower Cache Found: 11/15/2009
Tha' Turnin' Point Found: 11/15/2009
Not Valet Parkin' Found: 11/15/2009
Barkin' up Found: 11/15/2009
Little Mountain Divide Found: 11/15/2009
Homestead Found: 11/15/2009
Trails Meet Found: 11/15/2009
Trash t' Treasure Found: 11/14/2009
Tram Line Found: 11/14/2009
Ed Banks Intersection Found: 10/24/2009
Hwy 278 Interior River Access Found: 10/24/2009
Tha' Lighthouse Found: 10/23/2009
Jot em' Down Found: 10/21/2009
Gold Buckle Dreams Found: 10/7/2009
Whiskey Peak Fire Tower Found: 9/6/2009
Dumpin' Found: 8/16/2009
Turquoise Mine Found: 8/4/2009
Turn West Found: 8/4/2009
Tin Horn Found: 8/4/2009
Not Mossy Oak Found: 8/4/2009
278/52600 Found: 6/20/2009
Sand Bar Intersection Found: 6/20/2009
Outhouse Mouse Found: 6/20/2009
Tha' Ramp Found: 6/20/2009
Movin' on down th' Line Found: 6/20/2009
Highway 246 River Access Found: 4/22/2009
White Eyed Coyote Cousin Found: 4/22/2009
Hwy. 278 Cut Off Found: 7/30/2008
STOGIE Found: 10/19/2006
Old School Found: 4/9/2006
Missouri Falls a Little Short Found: 7/12/2005

ChuckWalla
12-13-2009, 07:21 AM
Please find below a list of my dangerous and substandard geocaches to facilitate your archiving of them. Delete them as your time permits.
Please note that, as the cache owner, you have the website rights - and the responsibility - to archive caches yourself if you can no longer maintain them, do not feel they meet the guidelines and requirements, or just want to do away with them. While I can archive the caches for you, in consideration of my already considerable workload reviewing new cache listings and monitoring long disabled caches, I respectfully ask that you archive these geocaches yourself.

Chuck Walla
Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

P. S. I am puzzled why you chose to use a public forum to convey this information to me, as a personal email would have been more appropriate. I request that you - and others - use email in the future to contact me regarding issues with your geocaches or those of others.

jclaudii
12-13-2009, 07:39 AM
I hate to see notes like this, but before we go archiving all these caches, do you think we could allow area cachers to adopt them and get them in compliance? Or, I would be happy to submit a list of them to have them approved and just keep them all under MB's name, if you are coming back to our area MB and just out of town for a bit.

I have yet to do these caches and I love FS caches and I would hate to see these go. Chuck, if you could give us a few options before we get rid of 40+ caches in the FS service that would be great! I'll keep an eye on this thread in case I need to prepare a big e-mail to the fs to approve 40+ caches :)

ChuckWalla
12-13-2009, 07:56 AM
There appears to be some misunderstanding here. Please be aware that I knew nothing about possible issues with these caches before this thread was posted, nor had I contacted mountainborn about them. When the NF started their permit system a couple of years back, I did not go back and review existing caches in the NF and require them to have a permit. Nor did the NFS ask me to do so. If mountainborn wishes to archive his caches for whatever reason, that is his right as a cache owner. If mountainborn wishes to offer up his caches for adoption by others, that is also his right as a cache owner. There is no deadline for doing this. I do not plan on being involved unless someone reports an issue with any of the caches.

Chuck Walla

mountainborn
12-19-2009, 07:10 PM
CHUCKWALLA SAID:
P. S. I am puzzled why you chose to use a public forum to convey this information to me, as a personal email would have been more appropriate. I request that you - and others - use email in the future to contact me regarding issues with your geocaches or those of others.
Well. since you asked.
When someone is anonymous, and autonomous, and, they get all "full of them selves" and begin to establish a "tougher standard" that may be applied to some, but not everyone.
It is a violation of a simple, basic human right, one of equality.
Then, the only avenue of recourse is the "court of public opinion".
Since we are all geocachers and subject to peer pressure, maybe this feeble protest could modify the behavior of the "powers that be".
For example:
Your tone in your response seems to be one of talking down to this lowly geocacher from your lofty and superior position. Correcting my bad behavior of posting a communication in a public forum. This is simply a bullying technique designed to keep this lesser person in line.
Quite a leadership technique, eh ?

arkfiremedic
12-21-2009, 01:58 AM
I too, like jclaudii, really don't like to see threads like this. I have no intent by my response on this thread to take anything away from mountainborn's opinion and agree it is well within his right to speak his mind in any forum he so desires. What I do want to say, however, is that at times I haven't really understood ChuckWalla's rationale for approving caches, and it probably has came from my mouth a time or two about questioning if other states have such a strict reviewer like him. In all honesty though, and especially in ChuckWalla's defense, I in no way, shape, form, or fashion believe he has been any harder on me (or my daughter) in our cache placements than any other cache hider within the confines of his reviewing area (Arkansas). I believe ChuckWalla interprets the rules of the game literally and enforces them equally. He has always offered an explanation why, in detail, he took the actions he did when he didn’t have to. He simply could say because “What I say goes and because I said so”. We must always remember this is an UNPAID position. He devotes tremendous amounts of time to this 'sport' daily and I wouldn't be afraid to say he devotes MORE time than any particular individual in our state to this 'game' we all have came to love. I just wanted to post a reply to this thread to publicly offer my sincere THANKS to ChuckWalla for what he has done in the past, present, and future to ensure Arkansas has the best geocaches (meaning that to the best of his abilities the caches and their placement follow the letter of the geocaching.com rulebook) of any area in the world. I wouldn't want his job, not even for a day, and just how long has he been doing it now? THANK YOU ChuckWalla for what you do for our sport. In all our communications we have shared I have always tried to convey my thanks to you, even if I really didn't agree with your stance on a matter. In the end I knew you were right and that you have interpreted the rules equally to all cachers, regardless of if we live in rural LA (Lower Arkansas), the Delta, the River Valley, or in the mountain regions of our great state. After reading a thread like this it would be easy for you to simply throw your hands up and say, that's it- I'm done, it is not worth it and someone else can have this headache... but please remember there are many of us who are VERY appreciative of what you do and are not afraid to speak out in your behalf. THANK YOU AGAIN.

arkfiremedic

Justin Murphree
El Dorado, Arkansas

majii
12-21-2009, 08:47 AM
I believe the original post in this thread is out of line. Assuming the originator of the thread goes by the same handle on geocaching.com, that cache owner has 4 archived caches. 2 of these were manually archived by the cache owner, one was archived by Chuck Walla at the apparent request of the owner, and the other one was archived after 2 standard warnings from Chuck Walla that everybody receives when they leave a cache disabled for any length of time. There is one cache that was disabled by Chuck Walla because another cacher posted a Needs Archived note. This is standard procedure to the best of my knowledge. Chuck Walla even used his form letter note when disabling the cache. I'm not really sure where mountainborn's issue comes from. I haven't always agreed with Chuck Walla on some cache reviewals, but I think he does a fine job of handling the reviewing for the entire state and being fair to everybody. And if you explain a situation to him, he's been more than reasonable in the past. Just my 2 cents.

at123
02-17-2010, 08:11 PM
I too, like jclaudii, really don't like to see threads like this. I have no intent by my response on this thread to take anything away from mountainborn's opinion and agree it is well within his right to speak his mind in any forum he so desires. What I do want to say, however, is that at times I haven't really understood ChuckWalla's rationale for approving caches, and it probably has came from my mouth a time or two about questioning if other states have such a strict reviewer like him. In all honesty though, and especially in ChuckWalla's defense, I in no way, shape, form, or fashion believe he has been any harder on me (or my daughter) in our cache placements than any other cache hider within the confines of his reviewing area (Arkansas). I believe ChuckWalla interprets the rules of the game literally and enforces them equally. He has always offered an explanation why, in detail, he took the actions he did when he didn’t have to. He simply could say because “What I say goes and because I said so”. We must always remember this is an UNPAID position. He devotes tremendous amounts of time to this 'sport' daily and I wouldn't be afraid to say he devotes MORE time than any particular individual in our state to this 'game' we all have came to love. I just wanted to post a reply to this thread to publicly offer my sincere THANKS to ChuckWalla for what he has done in the past, present, and future to ensure Arkansas has the best geocaches (meaning that to the best of his abilities the caches and their placement follow the letter of the geocaching.com rulebook) of any area in the world. I wouldn't want his job, not even for a day, and just how long has he been doing it now? THANK YOU ChuckWalla for what you do for our sport. In all our communications we have shared I have always tried to convey my thanks to you, even if I really didn't agree with your stance on a matter. In the end I knew you were right and that you have interpreted the rules equally to all cachers, regardless of if we live in rural LA (Lower Arkansas), the Delta, the River Valley, or in the mountain regions of our great state. After reading a thread like this it would be easy for you to simply throw your hands up and say, that's it- I'm done, it is not worth it and someone else can have this headache... but please remember there are many of us who are VERY appreciative of what you do and are not afraid to speak out in your behalf. THANK YOU AGAIN.

arkfiremedic

Justin Murphree
El Dorado, Arkansas

I agree 100%.... Chucks UNPAID position I would imagine is that related to a data entry worker. click, click, type, type, yawn, yawn. Im sure he doesn't get any big thrills out of doing this, and this boring unpaid position would make me a little crabby at times. Not saying that you are Chuck just guessing. With who knows how many new caches placed each day I'd be willing to bet he can't find much time to even enjoy the sport for himself. So I give a great big thanks to you to Mr. Walla. Do it the way you want to, your the boss. And to anyone who doesnt agree just think of it like a job. We all have bosses we don't always agree with, or just plain out do not like. But we have to get paid, or in this case a new cache to find. Do it your way Chuck. Even if I don't agree with your decision later down the road. Thanks again.