AR Game and Fish and AR Natural Heritage Commissions

[LadyEngineer]

I contacted the local ArGFC here in Lonoke because I wanted to put a cache at the Joe Hogan Fish Hatchery and they also sent me to a "name" in Little Rock (I'm referring to HarleyHogs post in the post about the newspaper articles that Arkansas Stickerdude started. See bottom of this post for what he said). That person had heard of Geocaching and said they knew what it was and what the Arkansas Parks Department had agreed to. They had discussed it with their attorneys and were in the stages of drawing up procedures for geocaching in Arkansas, BUT only ArGFC employees would be allowed to place/own a cache on their properties. Now that is just what he told me. I can't find where I put his number or his name but if I find it I will post it so you can see what who I talked to. This was about a month ago now.

http://www.agfc.com/education/geocaching.html

I also am trying to make contact with the Arkansas Natural Heritage Commission and have been given a contact (Doug Fletcher) with them by a friend (Tom Foti) that works ANHC, but he (Doug) has not returned my phone call yet. Tom told me that at the moment they were not happy with Geocaching because they have found some caches that were placed on their properties without permission and the area around the cache had been damaged. I explained it in greater detail to Tom and told him what the State Parks allow and he felt the ANHC might go for a permitted system like that, if it gets explained to them.

http://www.naturalheritage.org/



I guess you have had better luck with the Ark Game and Fish Commission than I have.

I was going to set out a cache on a G/F River Access area, so I called the local G/F Biologist Office to obtain approval for the cache. They had no idea what I was talking about. They referred me to Little Rock.

Before calling I went to the GF website. Wow there was a article about Geocaching :lol: . Well I called and I went thru 3 different people to find one that had heard of Geocaching. Well to make a long story short someone took my phone number and would have someone call me back. That has been over a month ago. You would think that if the G/F had a web page dealing with Geocaching that their people would be a little better informed.

I guess what my main point is we need to education the people about the positive aspects of Geocaching as a sport / hobby. We need to inform individuals that this is not only an individual sport / hobby, that caching can also be done as a family or group event. 8O

[rock_hound]

I have had similar experience with the AGFC. See this forum topic I started a while back http://www.arkgeocaching.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=35&sid=9f433a788e097f17e585c595ce46594c

Maybe we could write a letter from the ArkGeo Assoc.


BUT only ArGFC employees would be allowed to place/own a cache on their properties.

That's the samething they told me. That's like saying only AGFC employees can hunt on PUBLIC LAND. :x

[LadyEngineer]

I found the name of the person that I talked with at the Ar Game and Fish Commission. It was Alex Hinson at 501-594-5719. I called him today when I found his number and asked if the policy had been finalized for Geocaching in Arkansas and he said that it had not. It had been put on hold. He gave me his boss' name and number and said she might be very interested in Arkansas Geocachers opinion or views. Her name is Lucy Moreland and her number is 501-223-6433. She is out of the office this week but is expected back next week (Sept. 13).

Just curious, would now be a good time for us as a group to try and approach the Commission before they get anything final so maybe we can convince them that we mean no harm to the land that they own and would be willing to participate if they initiate a permit system so that it is not just limited to their employees? :?:

[topkitty98]

I personally think it would be an excellent idea. I too had thought about placing in a nearby spot that would be covered under these guidelines - but put a hold on it after talking with some of you who had tried before. I am willing to help you guys do whatever is necessary. I am upset that whatever caches had been placed that they were referring to had damaged the land. That's so sad.

LE, holler if you need help or rather if you could tell me how to help.

topkitty
>^..^<

[rock_hound]

We now have (that I know of) five cachers who are willing do something to change the AGFC's cache policy.

Team Rock Hound
Lady Engineer
Topkitty
Gaddiel and OrangeDanish
Harleyhogs

I am sure there are others. Maybe we can set up an actual meeting with somebody at the AGFC. What does everyone think? Who wants to make that phone call or write the letter? (Since we don't have a steering committee)

[Phantom_491]

Add my name to the list. I'm not much good at writing letter and such, but I can lend my voice to the chorus!

[Woodwalker9]

I echo what phantom said. Please add my name to the list.

[n5xl]

I am interested in this for several reasons. The main one being that I believe that WMAs make perfect cache spots. After all, they are public lands and should be used as such...by the public.

According to the mission statement of the AGFC, they are designated by the people of Arkansas to manage wildlife resources for the maximum benefit of the people. Wildlife resources are not just wildlife, but the habitat they live in….aka land. I would think that if all 125 members of this website were to petition the AGFC as a unified organization, one with a solid grasp of ecological awareness and good outdoor ethics, we would be heard. I used to go to hunting club meetings far fewer members than what we have here, and they have had their voice heard in Little Rock.

The AGFC prides itself on the education. What better way to get youngsters interested in going into the wilds and possibly learning something instead of playing video games. We are all aware that geocaching is a fantastic family activity. This is a great conduit to get young kids interested in outdoor issues and conservation awareness. What will the AGFC do for public funding if our kids grow up with out an appreciation of the outdoors, and they turn voting age? Teach them young and now.

Arkansas government and agencies should present a unified front on common issues across departments. The standing geocaching policies of the Parks Commission are a very livable and fair set of rules for everyone. AGFC would have to exert almost no effort to adopt these rules. Besides, by requiring a permit before geocache placement, it makes them aware of foot traffic in potential sensitive/dangerous areas, and the location can be modified accordingly.

The underlying belief in this part of Arkansas (true or not) is that the AGFC and the AGFC Foundation are a group of "good ole boys" in business for the benefit of themselves and the commissioners. The accusations are that public lands and lakes are being "reserved" as private hunting and fishing holes by ever tightening regulations and restrictions and areas that are off limits. While I am sure that this is far from the truth, it would appear that there is a public relations issue festering in at least a small part of the population. By maintaining that members of AGFC can only place geocaches does nothing but foster and fuel this widely held belief. Adoption a proactive and very public supporting policy will do a lot of positive PR for the AGFC (and present a unified front with other agencies in AR).

The only potential issue I can see that AGFC would have would be people walking around the woods during deer hunting season. Firstly, this is no different than any other non public land during hunting season. Remember too, that non-public land is hunted for a longer period of time during hunting season (usually a couple of months if you include rifle and muzzleloader season) and not usually restricted as a "permit" type hunt. By making caches on WMA's restricted or off limits to access during permit deer hunts would only reduce the time the cache is active by a week or two at best. I would think this a livable compromise to be able to have access to it for the rest of the year. I don’t think many would go after caches on WMAs during deer season anyway just out of common sense.


Dave
N5XL

[nonnipoppy]

Deal me in........poppy


BTW n5xl I enjoyed your response. Welcome.

[GEO]

I am back and IN.

[n5xl]

Thanks Poppi,

Whenever I join a public forum for the first time, I usually try to start posting little messages and try to ease my way into subjects. Mainly, for me to get a "feel" for the lay of the land. I surely didn't intend to take a stand so soon :) .

Thank you for the welcome. I have a few other comments to add to my email from last night for the group to think about......(stands on soapbox)

The reason I decided to just jump in on this subject is because I can certainly see the good that geocaching has done for my children. They absolutely LOVE going out and looking for treasure. In the process of finding new caches for them, I get the opportunity to show them trees, wildlife, some fantastic sights, and pass along the things that I learned about the outdoors as I grew up. I hope they develop an appreciation for things outdoors because of the things I do for them now. As they get older, I hope they will learn the necessity of managing places like WMAs, and the reason we need organizations like AGFC to see that wildlife has a place to live for a long time to come. When they are old enough to vote, and it comes time to pass taxes to help pay for AGFC projects and salaries, I hope they vote based on what they learned from our experiences.

Exploring WMA's with a parent’s guidance gives children the opportunity to see wildlife and the habitat they call home. What better way to explore a WMA and teach children, as they seek a definable goal with a "reward" at the end for the young.

The AGFC is in a unique (and perhaps a somewhat awkward) position, in that they are going to send a message to Arkansans, both young and old, dictating how they feel about geocaching. I honestly believe that consistency is crucial when dealing with people, and government should be no different. As a manager, I have to be consistent regarding rules and regulations in how I manage my employees. Government and its agencies should be consistent in policy. Its counterproductive (and very frustrating) to have one agency allow geocaching, and then to have a very similar group potentially not allow it or worse yet, allow it but only to the benefit of their own employees. In my opinion, a very successful geocaching policy is already in place by the Parks Commission. All the AGFC would have to do is adopt it with little, if any modification.

The last time I checked, AGFC was actively participating in the education of children via its education centers. I see a perfect opportunity for AGFC to be a part of teaching young minds how to explore the wilds of Arkansas using GPS technology. We have the perfect opportunity as citizens of this state to teach good ecological practices using geocaching as a conduit. The direction that AGFC chooses to go on this subject, to me, has long lasting implications.

Ill say one last thing to those that have an interest in the outcome of this. If the AGA wishes to peruse geocaching on AGFC managed property, there needs to be a plan put together. It needs to show ways we intend to manage geocaches without disturbing wildlife, habitat, or making extra work for AGFC. AGFC is no different than any other government agency. They have a million things they have to work on everyday. The last thing they want is another headache to deal with. If you present a plan in a very logical, precise and SIMPLE way for upper management to understand it, you have a much better chance of having your voice heard. The first impression of a poorly organized group of individuals, with no planning or goals, is quite poor. I certainly am not saying that is the case with AGA, but we have the opportunity to have a say in government policy. We are all well aware of our higher standards regarding ecology (i.e., cache in trash out policy), but does the AGFC know that? If you have been to a WMA, you would see the potential benefit from having a cache in trash out policy. Some areas are just plain trashy. The AGFC needs to know our activities wont further damage habitat, but can actually help it. I think the AGFC needs an education in what we stand for and can do for WMA's. Let take advantage of that by putting our best collective foot forward.


Dave
N5XL

[LadyEngineer]

N5XL,

Very well said. Can Rock_Hound add your name to the list of people to help try and change the AGFC mind?

LE

[arkansas_stickerdude]

Count me in also.

[lukywest]

What the heck, I would love to speak up too.

[n5xl]

Yes LE,

Count me in, and feel free to add my name to the list.

N5XL

[Gaddiel]

In my opinion, a very successful geocaching policy is already in place by the Parks Commission. All the AGFC would have to do is adopt it with little, if any modification.

Exactly. A lot of the members here have already seen this process through (and successfully, I might add). Does the AGFC even know about this policy? I'd be willing to bet that if we can get an audience with a person or people that actually has power to direct policies, we could make a very good case to them.


If the AGA wishes to peruse geocaching on AGFC managed property, there needs to be a plan put together. It needs to show ways we intend to manage geocaches without disturbing wildlife, habitat, or making extra work for AGFC.

I'm almost certain that these are the main concerns of the AGFC. I know that those were also the concerns that the Arkansas State Parks system cited when geocaching was first brought up to them. And they are valid concerns. Our mission is to show the AGFC, ASP, and other landowners that geocaching will benefit them, rather than hurting them. ArkGeo can do that, and I believe that a concerted, well-planned effort would give us the best chance at achieving this. If any of you would like to pool our resources, I'd love to help any way I can. Feel free to email me a copy of anything you have and I'll do the same...

n5xl, thanks for your contribution to this subject and WELCOME!!!

[thenaturenurd]

Hey folks,

Im rather new at geocaching but a few of you have met me at the Tri-States meeting a few months back in Fayetteville. I wanted to put in my 0.02 worth since I have direct relation to this post. I work for Arkansas State Parks so I have alot of people I could get ahold of if you guys are further pursuing this issue with Game and Fish and the Natural Heritage Commission. Both agencies co-manage several properties with AR State Parks so there is common ground I think between the new State Park geocaching policy and what could be done on Game and Fish and/or Natural Heritage Commission land. If anyone wants to further contact tackle this issue shoot me an email...

Craig :D

[topkitty98]

PM sent! I am still interested in this subject myself. We have a few Wildlife Management places close by that are beautiful and quite interesting. Please keep us up to speed on this, ParkDude!

topkitty98 >^..^<

[thenaturenurd]

Will do topkitty98. Let me look into this and see if I can brainstorm on a plan. There are some nice areas up here by me as well.

:mrgreen: Craig

[MrsGeoark]

How did we miss this.. Count us in, I (Mrs Geoark) not afraid to speak out for the both of us.(Mr. and Mrs. Geoark1) Let us know when and where, as have contacts at State Parks, Game and Fish as well as State Trails.

Mrs. Geoark

[thenaturenurd]

Yeah I think as suggested earlier...the AR State Parks plan would work for G&F and ANHC with some modifications. As I said Ill need to chat with some people and brainstorm a little more. The state trails guys are still part of my department (ADPT) and I know them as well. Anyways. Prob wont be till after the New Year till I have a basic plan. I promise to keep all that are interested posted on this...

Craig :D

[thenaturenurd]

Ok I have thought a little further on this. Lady Engineer or whoever is making the list of people who want to speak on this issue add myself and Topkitty and MrsGeoArk to your list. I think...as stated earlier...we need to write a concise letter explaining geocaching not only to upper management of AGFC and ANHC but also to both agencies respective commissions. Having worked for AR State Parks for nearly 5 years now, I realize the real policy makers are the commisson and its members. They approve policy from upper management and suggest new policy. We impress them and we get our new geocaching policies with AGFC and ANHC.

I think something highly effective to present to the commissions of both agencies would be a powerpoint presentation on geocaching so they can even better understand what it is we like to do.

Im interested in anyone's thoughts and/or comments.

Happy New Years to y'all,

Craig

[TeamMGGPS]

Count me in also.
I'm not a real big fan of the way the State Parks department handled the Geocaching situation and I would rather just have the GF say it's OK to set Geocaches on the public land they manage. I agree with the hiking angle. If it's OK to hike there it should be OK to Geocache there. That being said if the only way is get a permit then I guess thats what we'll have to do.
Team MGGPS

[LadyEngineer]

I've been waiting for a committee to be formed so I could get their approval to approach the AGF and AHC as a united organization. Hopefully, the votes are in and TG will be announcing them soon. (I haven't read all the post of the last week. I've been running around with family.) I have powerpoint on my computer and use it frequently. I would be more then happy to put the presentation together. Many people have commented that they have a contact. Which one do we want to use? I really don't know which contact would be the best one to get the results that we are looking for. How about listing the names of the contacts at each agency and then we can all decided which one we want to contact?

LE

[thenaturenurd]

I would be glad to present the program. I am planning on developing one anyway for use at my park for interpretive/educational purposes. I have developed Powerpoint programs before, but if you wanna do it Lady Engineer thats fine. Holler if you want help.

Ill see what I can come up with on a list of contact people at each agency.

here is the link to the Game and Fish Commissioners...
http://www.agfc.com/agfc/commission_board.html

Staff list for Arkansas Natural Heritage Commission
http://www.naturalheritage.org/about/st ... _staff.asp (http://www.naturalheritage.org/about/staff/complete_staff.asp)

Craig

[LadyEngineer]

I guess we let this get stall and didn't follow through. I will try to contact the person I mentioned at the begining of this post today (Nov 8, 2005) and see if I can see where they are at and will report back on it.

LE

[LadyEngineer]

I just talked to Lucy Moreland at the AGFC.

They have caches out presently that are not listed on GC. She said one of the reasons that they have not pursued going before the directors is that there has been very little interest in the caches they have. She said that the AGFC webmaster has tried to get their caches "linked" from the GC site but they have been unsuccessful.

I explained to her that if one person on their staff would become a GC member and submit each of their caches to make them official GC caches, then they would not have to worry about a link and they would most likely see an increase in people coming to those sites. Most cachers, especially out of staters, have no idea they would have to go to the AFC website and get the cache information.

Here is a list of the caches they presently have:
Andrew H. Hulsey State Fish Hatchery, Bell Slough Wildlife Management Area and Nature Trail, C.B. “Charlie” Craig State Fish Hatchery, Crowley’s Ridge Nature Center, Governor Mike Huckabe Delta Rivers Nature Center, Ponca Elk Education Center, and Rick Evans/Grandview Prairie Conservation Education Center.

Maybe if we show them an interest in these caches they will see that cachers bring revenue. If your out caching this week or next, try to stop in on one or two of these. Sign the log and let them know it would be nice to have them listed on GC or that they might get more visitors if they are listed there also.

She is looking into getting someone on staff to get that done.

She took my name and number.

[Gaddiel]

They have caches out presently that are not listed on GC. She said one of the reasons that they have not pursued going before the directors is that there has been very little interest in the caches they have. She said that the AGFC webmaster has tried to get their caches "linked" from the GC site but they have been unsuccessful.

Here is a list of the caches they presently have:
Andrew H. Hulsey State Fish Hatchery, Bell Slough Wildlife Management Area and Nature Trail, C.B. “Charlie” Craig State Fish Hatchery, Crowley’s Ridge Nature Center, Governor Mike Huckabe Delta Rivers Nature Center, Ponca Elk Education Center, and Rick Evans/Grandview Prairie Conservation Education Center.

Aren't these all VIRTUAL caches?

[LadyEngineer]

According to the description that the AGFC site has there are actual caches. I will call Lucy back and check with her to make sure.

Just got off the phone with Lucy and only the one at Bell Slough is a virtual. All the other ones they have out have actuall containers with logs and swag. I also informed her that GC will not accept virtuals anymore.

LE

[Geezer_Veazey]

Maybe if we show them an interest in these caches they will see that cachers bring revenue. If your out caching this week or next, try to stop in on one or two of these. Sign the log and let them know it would be nice to have them listed on GC or that they might get more visitors if they are listed there also.

She is looking into getting someone on staff to get that done.

LE; In the mean time can you get and post the AGFC web page address where we can get a description and the coordinates of the caches?

Geezer.

[Geezer_Veazey]

Never mind, LE. Google found it.

http://www.agfc.state.ar.us/education/geocaching.html

According to this web site the two fish hatcheries are also virtuals and the others have physical caches.

There is no provision for logging. I think when one is found an email would be in order if we knew who to send it to.

Geezer

[LadyEngineer]

Geezer,

Here is the link. You have to scroll down the page and they have them all listed there.

http://www.agfc.com/education/geocaching.html

LE

You are right, these should be one thread. Know a way to fix that?

In any case this reply will bump it back to the top breifly.

As far as the issue itself I can see at least one partial cure for the preceived disinterest in the AGFC caches....If anyone owns a cache in close proximity to the AGFC caches put a reference note either on the cache page on in the cache itself saying "While you are in the area...."

I don't see how they'd know if there was interest in the three virtual caches without any way to track the visitors, but sending people their way for the ones that do have logbooks might at least show the interest from that angle.

ARkayaker

[Gaddiel]

You are right, these should be one thread. Know a way to fix that?

Moderators can split a topic, but I haven't found a way to combine topics yet. I'll keep looking...

[Team_Pink]

I just happened to run across their web page today. I noticed they had caches but they weren't listed on geocaching.com and I email to ask about that. I told them I didn't quite understand why they seemed to stop short of a good idea and that I would be much more likely to visit one of their facilities if I could log a find. I got a very generic "The guy who hid those is in charge of that" type response.

Oh, well.

[Gersteacker]

I have been reading on this and other websites to try and determine if Geocaching is something I would like to get involved in. This thread caught my eye and is very disturbing. I don't think that very many people have any idea just how much land AG&FC controls. Just for instance in the Ozarks. If you go east from Highway 71. Nearly all of the Ozarks that is not private land is either in the White Rock Management area or the Ozark National Forest WMA. That is probably in excess of 300,000 acres. Looking at caches on Geocach.com many, many of the caches fall into that area. Another example is Mt. Magazine. Except for private land and the state park, nearly all is a WMA. And in many of these areas the AG&FC shares control with the Forest Service. So I guess one agency could say go ahead and the other agency would say no way.
Since the Forest with it's wonderful hiking trails was my main area of interest, I suppose I will just wait and watch for awhile before I jump in. :cry:

By the way, a great site.
Gersteacker

Has anything new come of your actions with the AGFC LadyEngineer?

I haven't noticed any listings on the GC website for them.

[LadyEngineer]

No. I've called and sent emails but she hasn't responded. I don't really know what to think of it. I guess I will try one more time.

[LadyRedbug]

A couple new ones by AGFC were listed on 3/24:

Rick Evans Grandview Prairie Education Center
Ponca Elk Education Center

[flannelman]

I have contacted Mike Bonds ( the guy that is in cahrge of that stuff) and he said that as of yet the WMAs are off limits for caches other than ones placed by the AGFC. However he did not rule out the possibility that they may open up, in a limited sense, to geocaches placed by others.

I think their main concern is not disrupting the ecology and the intended use of the WMA's.

Here is the email he sent me on this:

I'm not sure what the status of publicly-placed caches would be right now.
For the most part, what stays and goes on our WMA's is the decision of the
WMA manager. The big thing we want to avoid are user conflicts and habitat
impairment--we want people to be able to enjoy the WMA's, but we don't want
traditional uses profoundly affected or to create unsafe conditions for
visitors. Additionally, we need to be sure that any caches won't have an
adverse impact on habitats. However, we'll be trying to work through those
issues so that the public can gain a fuller use of the properties we manage
for them and to promote more visits by the public to those properties

[LadyEngineer]

I guess something did come from my conversations with Mrs. Moreland. I just didn't know it. I am writing a letter to the commissioners in the hope of being able to speak at one of their meetings, so that I can give a face to Arkansas cachers. I will let everyone know what I hear.


Ponca Elk Education Center
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c8fe3176-602a-4f90-baca-ef5fa4e6d41d

Rick Evans Grandview Prairie Education Center
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=5a90fdb2-809f-4fb4-a560-e71e66888edc

[Gaddiel]

Another new cache by the Commission:

Arkansas Game & Fish Commission Headquarters (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=f5bdfbb4-a6dd-489f-aa15-8018acfd44d0)

Looks like they are recognizing the benefits of geocaching, at least...

Wayne

[NatureFish]

Yes, they are recognizing the benefits, but they are also recognizing the risks. You will note that there is another cache just 330-something feet from this one.

It was placed without permission and came close to getting us in hot water.

They have graciously allowed me to keep that cache in place as long as I granted a variance for them to place theirs close to it, and extended their permission to keep it in place.

Thanks to their courtesy we won't lose a cache, but another placed on their land without permission could well cost us a lot of them.

We work hard to build relationships and trust, and a single cacher that doesn't care (or know) can jeapordize that. Spread the word about lands that require permission please!

[SJClimber]

I was considering a cache at the entrance of a Heritage site south of LRA. The spokesperson for the organization wrote a nice note. They have discussed caching and feel it inappropriate for areas they are trying to protect. Apparently this is for all their sites.

[LadyEngineer]

I have created an official letter from the association requesting an oppurtunity to speak at one of the commission meetings that they hold monthly in Little Rock. I will let everyone know if our request is granted and when.

LE

[LadyEngineer]

Naturefish,

I checked out the cache that you were refering to that was placed on AGFC property. That cache was placed by a cacher that has never found a cache and this was their first and only cache ever placed.

How as a group do we get the word out to new cachers that AGFC land is off limits? If they don't visit this forum or don't cache with an experience cacher or coming to gathering, they will never know.

Do you have a map that shows land that AGFC owns that you can check new caches against? I don't know but we might be able to come up with a spatial file with the info for you.

Any advise and guidance you could offer would be very welcomed.

[releejr]

Ok, I am offically spooked. I just recently lost my first Cashe site (I will note that the new owners of the land was kind enough to contact me and arrange to get my cache back to me), But I am frankly scared to rehide it. With so many "good", "public" places off-limits. Honestly I would have not thoght of many lands as belonging to WMA or AFGC, or that there would be a problem. Is there any way to find out who needs to be ask about X plot of undeveloped land???? Or am I the only guy that does not know where to find this stuff???

Anyway .. thanks for all the great info.

[flannelman]

You should be able to go to the county courthouse to see who owns a particular tract of land. I can't remember the exact office that deals with that but a quick glance at the phone book should get you off to a great start. I did this when I bought my property to see if the neighboring property was open to hunting or not (national forrest, etc.).

[nonnipoppy]

Arkansas Wildlife magazine is a bimonthly publication of AGFC. It always has great photos of Arkansas. The May/June edition has a wonderful photo of a dragonfly on the cover as well as an interesting article about them in the mag.

In addition it contains an article titled "21st Century Treasure Maps" sub titled "Geocaching Offers New Outdoor Opportunities". Written by Randy Zellers it does a good job explaining the game and features the Rick Evans and Bell Slough caches placed by AGFC. The article tells the coords and even prints the clues. The article quotes Alex Hinson, an AGFC regional education coordinator who seems to be an experienced cacher.

Obviously they have seen the advantage to having some caches, and may place others. Hooray for the game.....poppy

[ARWindstalker]

I read that article and rather enjoyed it. My grandpa is an avid fly-fisherman and has always loved the outdoors. He grew up in Winslow and also lived many years in Louisianna. The article has appeared to have inspired them to start the game. I can't wait to drag them out on the weekends!!

[LadyEngineer]

Finally!!

I have been granted permission to do a presentation at the AGFC meeting in September.

Wait! Stop! Please read this very carefully. The meeting room is extremely small and is usually cramped when just the commissioners are there, thus we have been ask to not bring a large crowd of people. I have talked to three of the four other committee members and we agree that we should honor the request of the AGFC and are only sending 3 people.

We are only allowed a 10 minute presentation (they normally only allow 7 but we were given premission by the chair for 10). At the moment I know for sure that Wayne and myself are going.

I do need help from those out there that take pictures. I need to put togehter a very thought out presentation that represents all that geocaching has to offer the AGFC while representing all whom geocache. I need quality (not quantity) pictures of CITO events, quality cache locations, young families, seniors, etc. I need pictures that really represent who we are. We want them to see that we're not harmful people without morals or respect for the environment, but that we want to work with them and that we're very willing to put forth an effort to make a partnership with them as we did with the Arkansas State Parks.

If you have some photos you can send me please email them to me using the "email" button at the bottom of this message or in my profile. Please include a description of who, what, where, when the picture was taken.

In another post, AR_Kayaker mention having a formal list of people that we represent. I think that is great idea. We have been trying very hard to figure a way to do that electronicly but have failed thus far. So for this meeting (since I'm under a huge crunch to get this together), if you would like to have your name listed as an official member being represented, please email and write in the message exactly that. Please include your name, geoname, address, phone and profession, so if they want to verify the info, they can. (I ask for the profession so I can show the diversity of the people that geocache.) Due to time I must receive your email by Sept 6. Any name after Sept 6 will not be include. I will compile the list and 1) list the names here and 2) present a copy of that list to the commissioners.

It has been two long years of emails and phone calls but we are at last getting a formal voice.

Pray that all goes well.

[MaxCacher]

Very Cool

Max

[RGS]

That's great that you finally get to do a presentation in front of the AGFC.

I've done quite a few from the St. Louis area, such as MO Park and Recreation assn., IL Park and Recreation Assn., St. Louis county park rangers, and facility and maintenance manages. All of this has been very productive and opened lots of doors for us, including 7-8 geocaching and GPS training classes each year.

In addition to the "normal" advantages of being outdoors, family fun, exercise, CITO, etc, remember to hit on the not so obvious advantages, such as extra eyes and ears, strange activity (meth labs), etc.

We've had the County park rangers ask us to place caches in "unopened" parks to get cachers in areas that are hard to patrol because of lack of roads or poor access. Other times the police actually stop us when they see a GPS to thank us for helping patrol the parks. Including a list of cities or areas that openly support caching, along with some contact names, always seems to help too.

I've got lots of pictures I could send you but I'd think you would want pictures of local parks and AR activities.

Good luck,

Rich (RGS)
SLAGA-St. Louis

[Woodwalker9]

LE,
That is fantastic. I know that it took a lot of hard work on yours and the other committee member's part for this to happen and I, for one, really appreciate it. It's comforting to know that in delicate negotiations such as these, we have such capable people in place to represent us.

I am emailing you my address and telephone number to be added to the list of AGA members who are being represented and offer my services in any capacity needed.

We wish you the best in September and thank you again for the great job that you and the committee are doing.

Pat/woodwalker

[jcblough]

Is there an update on this? I unwittingly placed a cache at bell slough this weekend only to discover via reviewer that it wasn't permitted - couldn't find info on any site about bell slough so I figured I was safe. Now I gotta go back and retrieve the dang thing. Don't know when I'll do that. I tried today and the whole area is FLOOOOODEDDDD. Luckily, the cache was hidden up out of the way.

[Gaddiel]

The AG&FC was very receptive to us at that meeting, but no legislation has been adopted yet. Check this thread (http://www.arkgeocaching.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=895&sid=6d83c0ee79fbb9eac0fd079bd920de06) for the latest information on this issue.

Wayne

[Woodwalker9]

I just received this from Bob and Linda(Cachecrazies).

20.36 GEOCACHING RESTRICTIONS ON COMMISSION-OWNED PROPERTY.

It shall be unlawful to establish or maintain a geocache on any Commission-owned property without first obtaining a Commission issued Geocaching Permit and complying with the terms of permit or the following restrictions:

1. All persons applying for a Commission issued Geocaching Permit must be at least 16 years of age.

2. All Geocaching Permit applications must contain the following information provided by the applicant:

name, valid address, telephone number, email address, driver's license number, the exact GPS location provided by the Commission and any non-Commission website address on which the cache will be posted.

3. All permitted caches must be placed at the location designated by the Commission and must be clearly and permanently marked with the required permit number issued by the Commission.

4. All Geocaching Permit holders failing to renew their permit must notify the Commission in writing if their permit will not be renewed, remove the physical cache from Commission peroperty and remove the cache location from all non-Commission websites or other information source.

5. If a Geocaching Permit holder fails to comply with the terms and condition of the Commission issued Geocaching Permit; or if the permit holder fails to remove a physical cache upon expiration or non-renewal of a Geocaching Permit; or if the geocache has been determined by the Commission to have caused adverse environmental damage, poses a public safety hazard or has caused user group conflicts; the the Commission reserves the right to remove the cache without notice and cancel the Geocaching Permit.

6. Caches may not be buried nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to place a cache without written approval of the Commission. The use of dead, downed debris to assist in concealing the cache is allowed. The cutting or destruction of living vegetation is prohibited.

7. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches.

EXCEPTION:

(1) Establishment and maintenance of official geocache locations on Commission-owned property by Commission personnel is allowed without a permit.

PENALTY: $250.00 to $1,000.00

[topkitty98]

So are we talking Game and Fish Commission or Ar Natural Heritage Commission with this? I am so confused.

[Woodwalker9]

Beth, sorry I wasn't plain in my post. Below is the first email I got from Linda.

Linda's email:

Hi Pat -

At work yesterday we got our "official" update on the AGF policies. Included is the section on geocaching. The officer said that he would get me a copy of the permit but I haven't seen it yet.

I don't know if anyone already has a copy of the regulation or not - but I could email it to you if you don't have it yet.

Hope you are all well.

Linda


I responded that I didn't have a copy and she then sent the policy that I included on my previous post.

I hope that clears it up.

[Gaddiel]

I think this policy is a good compromise. I understand the concerns that AGFC has expressed and it seems like those have all been addressed in this policy.

The best thing we can do now is to respect both the letter and the spirit of this policy. We can build trust with AGFC by demonstrating to them what the AR Parks system already knows: Arkansas geocachers are respectful and responsible folks.

Wayne

[Team_Pink]

It would be great if the regs and contact info to get the permit were posted in the downloads area. Hint Hint! :)

[Gaddiel]

Working on it... Hope to have more info soon...

Wayne

[Gaddiel]

It looks like the AGFC geocaching program is not quite ready yet. They are shooting for springtime (2008).

Just as we were told in December, the AGFC program will be quite different from the normal cache placement procedures. Here is the process, as explained to me:

1) Geocachers will visit the AGFC web site to browse through some pre-selected cache sites. (These sites will be chosen by the AGFC.)

2) Upon selecting one of the available sites to "adopt", geocachers will complete an online permit application.

3) The AGFC will review the application and the approved "adoption" will be posted to the AGFC web page. (The annual renewal will work the same way...)

4) The geocacher will then hide the cache in the approved location.


Some other important differences:

- Caches on WMAs will not participate in exchanging items (trades).
- The adopting cacher is responsible for maintaining a supply of brochures (supplied by the AGFC) and the log book.

The permit (adoption) process will most likely be done entirely online at the AGFC web site. This is one reason that they are not ready to go live with the program yet. All of the other parts of the program will need to be up and running first.

The AGFC web site will be the “official” source of information for these caches. However, the “adopting” individual may post the cache to GC.com as long as it is listed on the application when they apply for the permit. (The “adopting” individual would, of course, also be responsible for removing the cache listing when they decide not to participate in the program any longer.)

There are currently about 30 sites that have been approved statewide, with more to be added later.

Wayne

[redink]

Please add my name to the "voices" Red Ink